Anatta and Dukkha

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Germann
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Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Germann » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:02 pm

If no one is suffering, why is it suffering?

Srilankaputra
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Srilankaputra » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:14 pm

But, at least I am subject to suffering. And I do want to get out of suffering.
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

santa100
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by santa100 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:34 pm

Germann wrote:If no one is suffering, why is it suffering?
Because until one's actually attained enlightenment, all the "no one is suffering" stuff is just mere talk. One could know all the best recipes in the world but if s/he's yet able to cook a decent meal, one will continue to remain being hungry.

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Dan74-MkII
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Dan74-MkII » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:44 pm

Suffering is precisely the lack of this realisation that there is no one suffering. Once we really get it, there is no more suffering.

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Akashad
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Akashad » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:00 pm

Ignorance is suffering.

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Germann
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Germann » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:04 pm

Dan74-MkII wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:44 pm
Suffering is precisely the lack of this realisation that there is no one suffering. Once we really get it, there is no more suffering.
Who are we?

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Germann
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Germann » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:05 pm

Srilankaputra wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:14 pm
But, at least I am subject to suffering. And I do want to get out of suffering.
Do you exist?

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Germann
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Germann » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:08 pm

santa100 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:34 pm
Germann wrote:If no one is suffering, why is it suffering?
Because until one's actually attained enlightenment, all the "no one is suffering" stuff is just mere talk. One could know all the best recipes in the world but if s/he's yet able to cook a decent meal, one will continue to remain being hungry.
Who is "one", does he exist?

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Germann
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Germann » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:54 pm

An example of suffering: physical pain after achieving arahant status.

santa100
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by santa100 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:14 pm

Germann wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:08 pm
santa100 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:34 pm
Germann wrote:If no one is suffering, why is it suffering?
Because until one's actually attained enlightenment, all the "no one is suffering" stuff is just mere talk. One could know all the best recipes in the world but if s/he's yet able to cook a decent meal, one will continue to remain being hungry.
Who is "one", does he exist?
Who is Germann, does Germann exist? And no cheap talk here, by "not existing", Germann should have absolute zero fear when someone is about to stick a knife into Germann's belly, right?

Srilankaputra
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Location: Sri Lanka

Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Srilankaputra » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:38 pm

Germann wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:05 pm
Srilankaputra wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:14 pm
But, at least I am subject to suffering. And I do want to get out of suffering.
Do you exist?

I know what you are trying to do. You have probably prepared some elaborate logical trap, to ensnare us in doubt. So I refuse to humour you.
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

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Alīno
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Alīno » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:39 pm

Germann wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:02 pm
If no one is suffering, why is it suffering?
The is 5 focuses of identity (form, feeling, perception, mental formation, consciousness). There is identity, but there is no permanent identity.
When some one buy a car, and this car is broken, this person suffer about it, why this person suffer? Because there is identification with car, there is me, mine, myself.
This self-identification is caused by ignorance. When there is no ignorance, one sees, hears, smels, tastes, tuches, thinks this world as it is, as a film, as illusion, as not me, not mine, not my self, as just seen, heared, smeld, tasted, tuched, thinked, just as information, there is no interpretation of information, no prolifération, no fermentation, no being-in this information, no desire for this information, no suffering about this information.
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

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Jerafreyr
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Jerafreyr » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:48 pm

If all is dependently arisen from causes and conditions, then there is nothing that can be said to ultimately exist. Not even suffering exists, let alone a thing called a self. The path is the grounds of realization for developing the aptitude for sunyata.

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Dan74-MkII
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by Dan74-MkII » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:09 pm

Germann wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:04 pm
Dan74-MkII wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:44 pm
Suffering is precisely the lack of this realisation that there is no one suffering. Once we really get it, there is no more suffering.
Who are we?
For as long as we experience as 'we', we speak of 'we'. Even after, it can be convenient to use 'I' and 'we'.

budo
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Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by budo » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:05 pm

Germann wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:02 pm
If no one is suffering, why is it suffering?
The process of rebirth (dependent origination) is impersonal, doesn't mean pain doesn't exist.

Pain is mostly perception anyways. What feels painful to one person is pleasurable to another, take for example body builders or people in extreme sports.

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