No self theory do I get it right?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 09, 2019 2:08 pm

auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:33 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:28 pm
auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 12:44 pm

a man can have awareness but is too much into chemical abuses to notice importance to hold awareness. When being aware certain processes will stop, you need figure out by yourself how to make things happen otherwise what are done by chemicals.

making those claims that cells work purely on chemicals, you therefore don't see or know what awareness does or how human being is different from a cell.

This is gobbledegook
what are you doing on spiritual webpages?
Not talking gobbledegook

auto
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Thu May 09, 2019 2:09 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:08 pm
auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:33 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:28 pm



This is gobbledegook
what are you doing on spiritual webpages?
Not talking gobbledegook
take this Sutta,

https://suttacentral.net/sn10.1/en/sujato
Then the native spirit Indaka went up to the Buddha, and addressed him in verse: Atha kho indako yakkho yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṃ gāthāya ajjhabhāsi:

“The Buddhas say that form is not the soul. “Rūpaṃ na jīvanti vadanti buddhā,
can you assume here that soul doesn't exist? no, you can't.

https://suttacentral.net/sn10.5/en/sujato
Now at that time a certain lay woman had a son named Sānu who had been possessed by a native spirit. Tena kho pana samayena aññatarissā upāsikāya sānu nāma putto yakkhena gahito hoti.
if spirits can possess then why can't there be certain mechanics for soul too..
When Sānu regains consciousness tell him Sānuṃ pabuddhaṃ vajjāsi,
this saying of the native spirits: yakkhānaṃ vacanaṃ idaṃ;
Don’t do bad deeds Mākāsi pāpakaṃ kammaṃ,
either openly or in secret. āvi vā yadi vā raho.
...

https://suttacentral.net/sn10.6/en/sujato
Then the native spirit Piyaṅkara’s Mother soothed her little child, saying: Atha kho piyaṅkaramātā yakkhinī puttakaṃ evaṃ tosesi:

“Don’t make a sound, Piyaṅkara! “Mā saddaṃ kari piyaṅkara,
A mendicant recites passages of the teaching. Bhikkhu dhammapadāni bhāsati;
..
Let us keep from harming living creatures, Pāṇesu ca saṃyamāmase,
..
and hopefully we’ll be freed from the goblin realm.” Api muccema pisācayoniyā”ti.
hmm,not harming living creatrues.. freed from goblin realm..

https://suttacentral.net/sn11.12/en/sujato
There the Buddha said to the mendicants: Tatra kho bhagavā bhikkhū etadavoca:

“Mendicants, in a former life, when Sakka was a human being, he was a brahmanical student named Magha. That’s why he’s called Maghavā. “sakko, bhikkhave, devānamindo pubbe manussabhūto samāno magho nāma māṇavo ahosi, tasmā maghavāti vuccati.

In a former life, when Sakka was a human being, he gave gifts in stronghold after stronghold. That’s why he’s called Purindada, the Stronghold-Giver.

In a former life, when Sakka was a human being, he gave gifts carefully. That’s why he’s called Sakka, the Careful.

Sakka’s wife is the demon maiden named Sujā. That’s why he’s called Sujampati, Sujā’s Husband.

Sakka rules as sovereign lord over the gods of the Thirty-Three. That’s why he’s called lord of gods.

In a former life, when Sakka was a human being, he undertook seven vows. And it was because of undertaking these that he achieved the status of Sakka...
so your deeds aren't wasted or vows you take or discipline you do..i mean see how you get the titles, status and names..how many names Buddha have and Buddha prolly is a status??

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 09, 2019 2:28 pm

None of that means cells have consciousness.

auto
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Thu May 09, 2019 2:32 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:28 pm
None of that means cells have consciousness.
Its a part of persuading one to believe in soul and self and spirituality.


according to science cell is a living organism..not organism but unit. it doesn't even matter, you just are dumbly against spirituality and soul.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 09, 2019 3:17 pm

auto
Its a part of persuading one to believe in soul and self and spirituality.
I don’t need the soul theory for my spirituality.

according to science cell is a living organism..not organism but unit. it doesn't even matter, you just are dumbly against spirituality and soul.

Apart from bacteria, amoeba and the like cells aren’t classed as organisms and neither cells nor bacteria etc have consciousness.

auto
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Thu May 09, 2019 3:40 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:17 pm
auto
Its a part of persuading one to believe in soul and self and spirituality.
I don’t need the soul theory for my spirituality.

according to science cell is a living organism..not organism but unit. it doesn't even matter, you just are dumbly against spirituality and soul.

Apart from bacteria, amoeba and the like cells aren’t classed as organisms and neither cells nor bacteria etc have consciousness.
If cells react to light there are more than just form involved, there is also other khandhas. When you are capable to receive, it means feelings. Whatever will come conscious when there is nutriment.
Also there needs be cavity or womb to what can take consciosuenss in.

https://suttacentral.net/sn10.1/en/sujato
And how does one cling on in the womb?” Kathaṃ nvayaṃ sajjati gabbharasmin”ti.
..
And whatever the mother eats—Yañcassa bhuñjatī mātā,
the food and drink that she consumes—annaṃ pānañca bhojanaṃ;
nourishes them there, Tena so tattha yāpeti,
the person in the mother’s womb.” mātukucchigato naro”ti.
the person seem to be sumtotal of Them.


and you can include here free electrons what are looking for free hole.
Last edited by auto on Thu May 09, 2019 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

polo
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by polo » Thu May 09, 2019 3:44 pm

DNS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:37 pm
polo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:37 pm
DNS wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:49 pm


:D Good one, not sure if you were trying to be humorous, but it comes off a little funny. :thumbsup:
The funny part is I didn't know it's a little funny as you mentioned. I still don't see the funny side really. I must be a pretty dumb guy.
You were looking for some kind of "soul" to explain "no self" or i.e. that there is no soul. How could a soul explain there is no soul? :D
Oh, I see what you mean now. Yes, kind of funny.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 pm

auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:40 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:17 pm
auto
Its a part of persuading one to believe in soul and self and spirituality.
I don’t need the soul theory for my spirituality.

according to science cell is a living organism..not organism but unit. it doesn't even matter, you just are dumbly against spirituality and soul.

Apart from bacteria, amoeba and the like cells aren’t classed as organisms and neither cells nor bacteria etc have consciousness.
If cells react to light there are more than just form involved, there is also other khandhas. When you are capable to receive, it means feelings. Whatever will come conscious when there is nutriment.
Also there needs be cavity or womb to what can take consciosuenss in.

https://suttacentral.net/sn10.1/en/sujato
And how does one cling on in the womb?” Kathaṃ nvayaṃ sajjati gabbharasmin”ti.
..
And whatever the mother eats—Yañcassa bhuñjatī mātā,
the food and drink that she consumes—annaṃ pānañca bhojanaṃ;
nourishes them there, Tena so tattha yāpeti,
the person in the mother’s womb.” mātukucchigato naro”ti.
the person seem to be sumtotal of Them.


and you can include here free electrons what are looking for free hole.

Reacting to light doesn’t mean there is consciousness.

auto
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Thu May 09, 2019 7:16 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 pm
Reacting to light doesn’t mean there is consciousness.
skin cells have consciousness, you feel when something touch your skin, you can also go to that organ consciosuenss and try to feel different things, like lets feel the clothes around me, or pressures what come from sitting etc.

why then plants can't have consciousness? that when light comes it start grow that way that it could get more light..

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 09, 2019 7:40 pm

auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 7:16 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 pm
Reacting to light doesn’t mean there is consciousness.
skin cells have consciousness, you feel when something touch your skin, you can also go to that organ consciosuenss and try to feel different things, like lets feel the clothes around me, or pressures what come from sitting etc.

why then plants can't have consciousness? that when light comes it start grow that way that it could get more light..

That’s “you” feeling, not the cells. Plants don’t feel as they lack any form of a central nervous system.

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DNS
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by DNS » Thu May 09, 2019 9:52 pm

auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:30 am
DNS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:37 pm
polo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:37 pm


The funny part is I didn't know it's a little funny as you mentioned. I still don't see the funny side really. I must be a pretty dumb guy.
You were looking for some kind of "soul" to explain "no self" or i.e. that there is no soul. How could a soul explain there is no soul? :D
yes because there is a self- i am. It is indeed weird to think there is no self, when you are aware that you think about there is no self.
And that is the other part that is also kind of funny. Some who are very attached to the no-self doctrine argue vociferously in favor of the doctrine and appear upset at any opposition to their view, which shows a sign of asmi-mana and a self as they are attached to that. And so those on the opposing view say something like, if there is no self, who is doing all this arguing? :tongue:

The traditional Buddhist position would be that it is a perceived, illusory self that is being created in the attachment to views (either side).

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cappuccino
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by cappuccino » Thu May 09, 2019 10:46 pm

DNS wrote:if there is no self, who is doing all this arguing?
it's a frustrating dream of being a person, on a forum

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Jerafreyr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Jerafreyr » Fri May 10, 2019 12:01 am

To ordinary people who are not engaged on the path to awakening I do not discuss whether or not there is a self because it is futile. To those who wish to develop changeless wisdom, to untangle the knot of views and to put an end to craving - they should understand there is no self. If there were a self there would be no end to dukkha because dukkha would be your self.

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bridif1
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by bridif1 » Fri May 10, 2019 12:21 am

auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 7:16 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 pm
Reacting to light doesn’t mean there is consciousness.
skin cells have consciousness, you feel when something touch your skin, you can also go to that organ consciosuenss and try to feel different things, like lets feel the clothes around me, or pressures what come from sitting etc.

why then plants can't have consciousness? that when light comes it start grow that way that it could get more light..
Hi again!

We, as a species, have built machines that can detect the changes in some specific parameter, such as light intensity, temperature, electric currents, movement, and so on. These machines are called sensors, and they work just by the application and use of the laws of physics.

In your opinion, do these machines have consciousness?
Do they have the other four khandhas (or at least one of them)?

Kind regards!

auto
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Fri May 10, 2019 2:21 pm

bridif1 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:21 am
auto wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 7:16 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 pm
Reacting to light doesn’t mean there is consciousness.
skin cells have consciousness, you feel when something touch your skin, you can also go to that organ consciosuenss and try to feel different things, like lets feel the clothes around me, or pressures what come from sitting etc.

why then plants can't have consciousness? that when light comes it start grow that way that it could get more light..
Hi again!

We, as a species, have built machines that can detect the changes in some specific parameter, such as light intensity, temperature, electric currents, movement, and so on. These machines are called sensors, and they work just by the application and use of the laws of physics.

In your opinion, do these machines have consciousness?
Do they have the other four khandhas (or at least one of them)?

Kind regards!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahābhūta
--
consciousness-element(stored state). a space element what can hold consciousness element. For an example fotosensitive transistor. Consciousness element registers(feels).

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