Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Tom
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Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by Tom » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:45 am

Is it possible for one who has developed supernormal powers to have the same level of sense desire as an average human being?

form
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by form » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:23 am

Yes. The power come from a foundation from past lives, he is capable of going into jhanas to have the power, when out of it, he has evil thoughts. I suspect for such a person, he will soon lose the ability down the drain and suffer the consequences due to kamma depending on what he has done.

2600htz
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by 2600htz » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:20 pm

Hello:

Yes, Devadatta (the one that tried to kill the Buddha among other things) is the perfect example of a person with mixed faculties.
He could do a lot of the supernormal stuff, but was very much into desires. Eventually he lost that capacity, and ended up in a very nasty place.
U can also read about Sakka, a deva king of the sensual realm, i think he had a palace full of concubines, and wielded many psychic powers.

Regards.

Tom
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by Tom » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:47 pm

form wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:23 am
Yes. The power come from a foundation from past lives, he is capable of going into jhanas to have the power, when out of it, he has evil thoughts. I suspect for such a person, he will soon lose the ability down the drain and suffer the consequences due to kamma depending on what he has done.
Do you mean one must have a foundation from past lives to attain supernormal powers?
2600htz wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:20 pm
Hello:

Yes, Devadatta (the one that tried to kill the Buddha among other things) is the perfect example of a person with mixed faculties.
He could do a lot of the supernormal stuff, but was very much into desires. Eventually he lost that capacity, and ended up in a very nasty place.
U can also read about Sakka, a deva king of the sensual realm, i think he had a palace full of concubines, and wielded many psychic powers.

Regards.
Does anyone know of a textual reference that suggests Devadatta had sensual desires after having attained psychic powers?

ieee23
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by ieee23 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:51 pm

form wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:23 am
Yes. The power come from a foundation from past lives, he is capable of going into jhanas to have the power, when out of it, he has evil thoughts. I suspect for such a person, he will soon lose the ability down the drain and suffer the consequences due to kamma depending on what he has done.
I never knew that. Can you tell me where I can read it for myself?
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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DooDoot
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by DooDoot » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:22 pm

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L.N.
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by L.N. » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:30 pm

Take a look at Chapter 13, Devadatta, in the following:
https://what-buddha-said.net/library/pd ... Buddha.pdf
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

form
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by form » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:33 am

Hi Tom,
Yes. I think so.

Like under the same training and effort, someone can play piano well versus someone play badly.

For example, the king of psychic power, Moggallana was a mara or a direct relative of Mara before in his past life. I think this has something to do with his exceptional psychic ability.
Last edited by form on Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

form
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by form » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:38 am

ieee23 wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:51 pm
form wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:23 am
Yes. The power come from a foundation from past lives, he is capable of going into jhanas to have the power, when out of it, he has evil thoughts. I suspect for such a person, he will soon lose the ability down the drain and suffer the consequences due to kamma depending on what he has done.
I never knew that. Can you tell me where I can read it for myself?
I am not sure if all of the above has been documented fully. But the part on he lose the ability due to unwholesome thoughts and suffer in hell after he died for a very long time is documented, the Buddha even said Devadatta would become a Buddha in a distant future.

Tom
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by Tom » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:36 am

L.N. wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:30 pm
Take a look at Chapter 13, Devadatta, in the following:
https://what-buddha-said.net/library/pd ... Buddha.pdf
Are you suggesting that in that chapter it suggests Devadatta still had sensual desires?

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L.N.
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Re: Supernormal Powers and Sense Desire

Post by L.N. » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:03 pm

Tom wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:36 am
Are you suggesting that in that chapter it suggests Devadatta still had sensual desires?
From the chapter:
Once when Devadatta was alone in retreat this thought arose in his mind: “Who is there whose confidence I can win over and thereby acquire much gain, honour and renown?” Then he thought: “There is Prince Ajtasattu. He is young with a glorious future. Suppose I win over his confidence? Much gain, honour and renown will accrue to me if I do so.”

...

Devadatta became overwhelmed with gain, honour and renown. Ambition obsessed his mind, and the wish arose in him: “I will rule the Sangha of bhikkhus.” Simultaneously with the thought his supernormal powers vanished.
My impression is that the root here is sensual desire, a desire for the feelings associated with gain, honour and renown, a desire for the feeling associated with ruling over others. At the base of these experiences some desire for contact through the six sense doors which is perceived as pleasing.

In any case, the book is a good read. Best wishes.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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