how do monks travel internationally?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
rolling_boulder
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how do monks travel internationally?

Post by rolling_boulder » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:03 am

Hello, I often hear of monks travelling around the world for various personal reasons.
I always wonder, where do they get the money for this? How is the money distributed among the bhikkus for this purpose?

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RB
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Goofaholix
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by Goofaholix » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:51 am

rolling_boulder wrote:Hello, I often hear of monks travelling around the world for various personal reasons.
I always wonder, where do they get the money for this? How is the money distributed among the bhikkus for this purpose?
Someone buys the ticket for them, either from the place they have been invited to, or their base monastery or steward.
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cooran
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by cooran » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:00 am

Exactly. And a bhikkhu who is travelling by air is taken to the airport by a lay person. When he lands in the new city, he is met by a lay person from the Vihara he is visiting.
Lay people help with all the necessities of getting passports and visas.

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samseva
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by samseva » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:50 pm

Depends on the purpose of the trip. For teaching purposes or other duties, it will be paid by either the place where the monk in question is visiting or by the monastery (or by whatever association who manages the monetary funds). If it is for personal reasons, I don't think the monastery you live at will help for any of the costs. However, since you can't pay for the trip yourself, it is normally the person you are visiting who does.

rolling_boulder
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by rolling_boulder » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:43 am

Rather than starting a thread I'll ask my second question here:
How does citizenship work for monks? Do monks renounce citizenship from their home country and officially immigrate to where they ordain?
The world is swept away. It does not endure...
The world is without shelter, without protector...
The world is without ownership. One has to pass on, leaving everything behind...
The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.

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samseva
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by samseva » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:13 am

rolling_boulder wrote:Rather than starting a thread I'll ask my second question here:
How does citizenship work for monks? Do monks renounce citizenship from their home country and officially immigrate to where they ordain?
Depends which country, but usually renouncing one's initial citizenship is very rare and really not a good idea. Dual-citizenship is possible in most cases.

For Thailand, if things haven't changed too much, I think it is an Non-Immigrant ED or R visa, which lasts 1 year, but needs to be renewed every 90 days (although with monks it is possible to renew it without having to cross the border). I'd have to recheck to make sure if everything is correct and up to date, so to anyone thinking of relying on this, doing your own homework might be a better option. In Thailand, permanent residency is very difficult to obtain, let alone citizenship.

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Zom
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by Zom » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:16 pm

Hello, I often hear of monks travelling around the world for various personal reasons.
I always wonder, where do they get the money for this? How is the money distributed among the bhikkus for this purpose?
Many of monks have personal money and buy whatever they want. Where do they get it? Relatives can give them money, some people can give them money as "dana", monasteries can give them money, or in some cases they can even work to get them. Usually first two options is the case, especially the second.

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samseva
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by samseva » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:36 am

Zom wrote:Many of monks have personal money and buy whatever they want. Where do they get it? Relatives can give them money, some people can give them money as "dana", monasteries can give them money, or in some cases they can even work to get them. Usually first two options is the case, especially the second.
Yes, but these monks break the tenth precept and a number of Vinaya rules. It might be common, but it shouldn't be seen as a norm, but as monks not adhering to the rules they should be following.

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Zom
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by Zom » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:58 am

This situation is more complicated. Ordinary non-famous monks (unless you live in a special place called Wat Pah Nanachat) can't have this privilege of "not having money". Society doesn't let them do it - both asian and western. So, though it goes against the Vinaya, this thing has become, well, a norm. Alternative in most such cases is disrobing -)

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Mr Man
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by Mr Man » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:11 am

Zom wrote:This situation is more complicated. Ordinary non-famous monks (unless you live in a special place called Wat Pah Nanachat) can't have this privilege of "not having money". Society doesn't let them do it - both asian and western. So, though it goes against the Vinaya, this thing has become, well, a norm. Alternative in most such cases is disrobing -)
I think if a monastic is determined to live in accord with the rule regarding not handling money it is quite possible. Different people have different priorities.

thepea
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by thepea » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:13 pm

The head monk at my local vihara has a credit card, I have taken him to home depot to buy materials for repairs to centre. He says he is the only one allowed to use the card. He says it is a necessity in todays times and living in Canada where there is not a great deal of local support. The lay supporters pay the credit card bill every month. I imagine he uses this for fuel costs for driving( he has access to a car). This is how they get around the handling of money issue.

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Zom
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by Zom » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:59 pm

I think if a monastic is determined to live in accord with the rule regarding not handling money it is quite possible. Different people have different priorities.
In a few restricted places, yes.

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samseva
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by samseva » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:56 am

Zom wrote:This situation is more complicated. Ordinary non-famous monks (unless you live in a special place called Wat Pah Nanachat) can't have this privilege of "not having money". Society doesn't let them do it - both asian and western. So, though it goes against the Vinaya, this thing has become, well, a norm. Alternative in most such cases is disrobing -)
Do you know of people who used to do this as a monk or of monks who do this? Or is it mainly the usual monks who have money pretty much for any reason, from buying magazines to candy?

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mikenz66
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:29 am

I've certainly had discussions with non-famous monks, who have expressed the thought that they would really like to be able to not use money, but don't have the support structure that allows that. As Zom says, monks from well-connected institutions (not just WPN!) can jet around the world and be confident that someone is going to meet them, buy them food, and take them where they need to go. Some others may need to take a bus and buy a snack...

As a lay people, it's up to us to decide who (if anyone) we are going to support, and how. We're certainly not going to make any difference to those beyond our personal circle, so I wouldn't worry about that...

I think some of the choices (for both monks and lay people) are not straightforward. Is there actually a difference between a monk having some cash and him having an attendant following him around paying for things?

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SarathW
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Re: how do monks travel internationally?

Post by SarathW » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:42 am

I have no problem with monk handling money.
My concern is that they are breaking the tenth precept hence braking the fourth precepts as well.
Is breaking the tenth precept,considered breaking a minor rule?
What about then monks breaking other rules?
How does monk get around this problem?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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