SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

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SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:29 am

SN 9.11 PTS: S i 203 CDB i 301 Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta: Inappropriate Attention
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu


Food for thought for a monk being gnawed away by his thoughts.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

I have heard that on one occasion a certain monk was dwelling among the Kosalans in a forest thicket. Now at that time, he spent the day's abiding thinking evil, unskillful thoughts: i.e., thoughts of sensuality, thoughts of ill will, thoughts of doing harm.

Then the devata inhabiting the forest thicket, feeling sympathy for the monk, desiring his benefit, desiring to bring him to his senses, approached him and addressed him with this verse:
  • From inappropriate attention
    you're being chewed by your thoughts.
    Relinquishing what's inappropriate,
    contemplate
    appropriately.

    Keeping your mind on the Teacher,
    the Dhamma, the Sangha, your virtues,
    you will arrive at
    joy,
    rapture,
    pleasure
    without doubt.

    Then, saturated
    with joy,
    you will put an end
    to suffering & stress.
The monk, chastened by the devata, came to his senses.

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:31 am

Bhikkhu Bodhi's comment:

“Because of attending carelessly,
You, sir, are eaten by your thoughts.
Having relinquished the careless way,
You should reflect carefully."
  • Careless attention (ayoniso manasikāra) is traditionally explained as attending to things as permanent, pleasurable, self, and beautiful; careful attention (yoniso manasikāra), as attending to their true characteristics—impermanence, suffering, nonself, and foulness.

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:26 am

See also MN 2.
“This is how he attends unwisely: ‘Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what did I become in the past? Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I become in the future?’ Or else he is inwardly perplexed about the present thus: ‘Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where will it go?’

“When he attends unwisely in this way, one of six views arises in him. The view ‘self exists for me’ arises in him as true and established; or the view ‘no self exists for me’ arises in him as true and established; or the view ‘I perceive self with self’ arises in him as true and established; or the view ‘I perceive not-self with self’ arises in him as true and established; or the view ‘I perceive self with not-self’ arises in him as true and established; or else he has some such view as this: ‘It is this self of mine that speaks and feels and experiences here and there the result of good and bad actions; but this self of mine is permanent, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change, and it will endure as long as eternity.’ This speculative view, bhikkhus, is called the thicket of views, the wilderness of views, the contortion of views, the vacillation of views, the fetter of views. Fettered by the fetter of views, the untaught ordinary person is not freed from birth, ageing, and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair; he is not freed from suffering, I say.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=25072

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by cobwith » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:38 pm

Careless attention:

- fills up lack of mindfulness and clear comprehension (sampajañña).
AN 10.61

- is a condition for the arising of wrong view.
AN 2.125

- is why unarisen delusion arises, or arisen delusion tends to growth & abundance.
AN 3.68

- is why unarisen fermentations (asava) arise, and arisen fermentations increase.
MN 2

- Giving careless attention to the sign of the beautiful is the nutriment for the arising of unarisen sensual desire and for the increase and expansion of arisen sensual desire.
- Giving careless attention to the sign of the repulsive is the nutriment for the arising of unarisen ill will and for the increase and expansion of arisen ill will.
- Giving careless attention to discontent, lethargy, lazy stretching, drowsiness after meals, sluggishness of mind is the nutriment for the arising of unarisen sloth and torpor and for the increase and expansion of arisen sloth and torpor.
- Giving careless attention to the unsettledness of mind is the nutriment for the arising of unarisen restlessness and remorse and for the increase and expansion of arisen restlessness and remorse.
- Giving careless attention to the basis for doubt is the nutriment for the arising of unarisen doubt and for the increase and expansion of arisen doubt.
SN 46.2
Also SN 46.51; SN 46.35 & SN 46.24

Excerpts
Sā me dhammamadesesi,
khandhāyatanadhātuyo
Thig 5.8

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:02 am

Thanks for the references!

Mike

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by Cormac Brown » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:18 pm

From inappropriate attention
you're being chewed by your thoughts.
Relinquishing what's inappropriate,
contemplate
appropriately.
It can often seem like one is the victim of one's evil thoughts ('Why is this happening to me?'), but this points out that it all comes down to the viewpoint one is adopting in the present moment. The remedy, appropriate attention, is to regard what's happening in terms of the Four Noble Truths:
MN 2: "He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress. As he attends appropriately in this way, three fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at precepts & practices. These are called the fermentations to be abandoned by seeing."
A calm response to what can otherwise turn into a nightmare.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
“I in the present who am a worthy one, rightly self-awakened, am a
teacher of action, a teacher of activity, a teacher of persistence. But the
worthless man Makkhali contradicts even me, (saying,) ‘There is no
action. There is no activity. There is no persistence.’ "
AN 3.138, trans. Ven. Thanissaro

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by branded24 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:30 pm

Thank you for this great information.

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by seeker242 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:41 pm

:goodpost:

I don't know why this isn't spoken about more often!... :shrug:
"With regard to internal factors, I don't envision any other single factor like appropriate attention as doing so much for a monk in training, who has not attained the goal but remains intent on the unsurpassed safety from bondage. A monk who attends appropriately abandons what is unskillful and develops what is skillful.

Appropriate attention
as a quality
of a monk in training:
nothing else
does so much
for attaining the superlative goal.

A monk, striving appropriately,
attains the ending of stress.

— Iti 16
Seems like this should be on the front page of every conversation! :)

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:18 pm

Greetings,

Indeed.

Appropriate attention is cool. Inappropriate attention (i.e. looking wrongly) is a source of dukkha.

Nice topic and good sutta extracts.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by SarathW » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:34 am

Agree.
I have heard this term "Yoniso-manasikara" many hundreds time.
But it never sinking it to me.
I think the opposite of Ayoniyo-manaskkara" is Mindfulness.
That is practicing Satiapathana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: SN 9.11: Ayoniso-manasikara Sutta. Inappropriate Attention.

Post by Cormac Brown » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:24 am

SarathW wrote:I think the opposite of Ayoniyo-manaskkara" is Mindfulness.
The opposite of ayoniso manisikara (inappropriate attention) is yoniso manisakara (appropriate attention). As mentioned above, the clearest definition of appropriate attention seems to be viewing experience in terms of the Four Noble Truths. Mindfulness, rather, is the ability to remember the duties and terms of appropriate attention, and to avoid the questions of inappropriate attention. In terms of the Factors for Awakening, yoniso manasikara could maybe come closest to dhamma vicaya.

From Thanissaro Bhikkhu's Untangling the Present: The Role of Appropriate Attention
In giving his most detailed explanation of appropriate attention (MN 2), he starts with examples of inappropriate attention, which center on questions of identity and existence: "Do I exist?" "Do I not?" "What am I?" "Did I exist in the past?" "Will I exist in the future?" These questions are inappropriate because they lead to "a wilderness of views, a thicket of views" such as "I have a self," or "I have no self," all of which lead to entanglement, and none to the end of suffering.

In contrast, the Buddha then depicts appropriate attention as the ability to identify that "This is suffering (the Pali word dukkha here covers stress and pain as well)," "This is the origination of suffering," "This is the cessation of suffering," and "This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of suffering." These are the four categories that the Buddha, in his first discourse, called the four noble truths. The ability to frame the issue of suffering in line with these categories is what enables you ultimately to put an end to the problem of suffering once and for all. This is why they're appropriate.
From: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gling.html

Metta,

Cormac
“I in the present who am a worthy one, rightly self-awakened, am a
teacher of action, a teacher of activity, a teacher of persistence. But the
worthless man Makkhali contradicts even me, (saying,) ‘There is no
action. There is no activity. There is no persistence.’ "
AN 3.138, trans. Ven. Thanissaro

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