Buddhawajana.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mkoll
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by Mkoll »

jan fessel wrote:Mkoll wrote :
"Maybe, maybe not "
In the spirit of father Christmas I feel like sharing theese words with you dear Mkoll.... :tongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JYJhWIwGUw

:anjali:
:guns:

phpBB [video]
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

chownah
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by chownah »

Mkoll,
your post doesn't work for me.....is it a picture or a video? Here it is just blank.
chownah

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Mkoll
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Location: Texas

Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by Mkoll »

chownah wrote:Mkoll,
your post doesn't work for me.....is it a picture or a video? Here it is just blank.
chownah
Hmm that's odd because the video works for me. Maybe Youtube is acting up? If you try refreshing the page it might work. Anyway, here's the direct URL that you can copy-paste into your address bar. If that doesn't work then I'm really stumped. :shrug:

Code: Select all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23ARFCQlb3M
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

jan fessel
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by jan fessel »

To my dear friend Mkoll.

I surrender. :anjali:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgF_bYo0HI

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Mkoll
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by Mkoll »

:group:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

LXNDR
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by LXNDR »

it's Ani Sutta (SN 20.7) which he quotes at 1:01

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Goofaholix
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by Goofaholix »

jan fessel wrote:Buddhawajana belives that the sprinkling of "holy vater" by monks is wrong practice.
I don't know about the sprinkling part but the idea that some water is "holy" and some not makes no sense from a Buddhist perspective. Water is water, H2O is H2O, there is no such thing as Holy2O, it's subject to the 3 characteristics just like everything else.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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mikenz66
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by mikenz66 »

I think in those cases it depends how you view the ritual. Such rituals can be an aid to mindfulness and/or aid in focussing the mind on the positive actions that one is undertaken (e.g. making a donation). I don't think anyone thinks that the water bowl in our Wat is particularly magical...

Here are some comments from Ajahn Sumedho:
Roger Wheeler: As Abbot of Chithurst, how do you advise your monks to view ceremonies and rituals that might seem rather remote to the actual practice?

Ajahn Sumedho: I personally like rituals. They are quite pleasant to do; they are calming. One does them with a group of people. It is doing something that is pleasant, together and in unison. The intention is always good: to radiate kindness and to chant the teachings of the Buddha in Pali. It tends to uplift and inspire the minds of many people. That is its only function as far as I can tell.

I think ceremony makes life much more beautiful. I have seen Dhamma communities which do not have ceremonies. They are a bit gross, actually.

RW: Gross?

AS: Gross. People just do not have a sense of etiquette, a kind of refinement, a lovely movement, a sense of time and place that one has when one understands the value of precepts and ceremonies. They have their beauty.

The bhikkhu form is a kind of dance one does. One learns to move. It has its own beautiful form, which is a way of training the physical form in beautiful movement, the mental and the physical combined. However, it is not an end in itself. It can become silly if it is an end in itself. And it is not necessary, either. If it does not fit or if people do not want it, then one just does not use it. It is something one can use or not use according to time and place.

If one has never used ceremony or does not understand its purpose, then when one is faced with a ceremony, one might reject it, thinking, 'I don't like it', or 'ceremonies are wrong'. But they aren't! There is nothing wrong with ceremonies, they are quite alright to have. To feel one should not have ceremonies is just as much an opinion as to feel one should. It is not a matter of having to say one should or should not have them. They are a part of our tradition, so we use them if they are appropriate. If they are not appropriate, we do not use them. It is a matter of knowing, rather than of having opinions about it.

http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Ajahn ... viewed.htm
:anjali:
Mike

jan fessel
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by jan fessel »

Goofaholix wrote:
jan fessel wrote:Buddhawajana belives that the sprinkling of "holy vater" by monks is wrong practice.
I don't know about the sprinkling part but the idea that some water is "holy" and some not makes no sense from a Buddhist perspective. Water is water, H2O is H2O, there is no such thing as Holy2O, it's subject to the 3 characteristics just like everything else.

Here is a very different view on vater. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33IiYb8htHk

:anjali:

jan fessel
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by jan fessel »

mikenz66 wrote:I think in those cases it depends how you view the ritual. Such rituals can be an aid to mindfulness and/or aid in focussing the mind on the positive actions that one is undertaken (e.g. making a donation). I don't think anyone thinks that the water bowl in our Wat is particularly magical...

Here are some comments from Ajahn Sumedho:
Roger Wheeler: As Abbot of Chithurst, how do you advise your monks to view ceremonies and rituals that might seem rather remote to the actual practice?

Ajahn Sumedho: I personally like rituals. They are quite pleasant to do; they are calming. One does them with a group of people. It is doing something that is pleasant, together and in unison. The intention is always good: to radiate kindness and to chant the teachings of the Buddha in Pali. It tends to uplift and inspire the minds of many people. That is its only function as far as I can tell.

I think ceremony makes life much more beautiful. I have seen Dhamma communities which do not have ceremonies. They are a bit gross, actually.

RW: Gross?

AS: Gross. People just do not have a sense of etiquette, a kind of refinement, a lovely movement, a sense of time and place that one has when one understands the value of precepts and ceremonies. They have their beauty.

The bhikkhu form is a kind of dance one does. One learns to move. It has its own beautiful form, which is a way of training the physical form in beautiful movement, the mental and the physical combined. However, it is not an end in itself. It can become silly if it is an end in itself. And it is not necessary, either. If it does not fit or if people do not want it, then one just does not use it. It is something one can use or not use according to time and place.

If one has never used ceremony or does not understand its purpose, then when one is faced with a ceremony, one might reject it, thinking, 'I don't like it', or 'ceremonies are wrong'. But they aren't! There is nothing wrong with ceremonies, they are quite alright to have. To feel one should not have ceremonies is just as much an opinion as to feel one should. It is not a matter of having to say one should or should not have them. They are a part of our tradition, so we use them if they are appropriate. If they are not appropriate, we do not use them. It is a matter of knowing, rather than of having opinions about it.

http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Ajahn ... viewed.htm
:anjali:
Mike
Very interesting post. Thank you so much Mikenz66

:anjali:

jan fessel
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by jan fessel »

I belive Buddhawajana find the problem of using "holy water" in the text below.

"giving ritual rinsings and bathings"

1.27. '"Whereas some ascetics and Brahmins, feeding on the
food of the faithful, make their living by such base arts, such
wrong means of livelihood as appeasing the devas and redeeming
vows to them, making earth-house spells, causing
virility or impotence, preparing and consecrating buildingsites,
giving ritual rinsings and bathings, making sacrifices,
giving emetics, purges, expectorants and phlegmagogues,
giving ear-, eye-, nose-medicine, ointments and counter-ointments,
eye-surgery, surgery, pediatry, using balms to counter
the side-effects of previous remedies, the ascetic Gotama refrains
from such base arts and wrong means of livelihood."43
It is, monks, for such elementary, inferior matters of moral
practice that the worldling would praise the Tathagata. DN1.27

:anjali:

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mikenz66
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by mikenz66 »

Yes, it's possible that some may be "sprinkling" it in a way that would come under the definitions of that sutta. In my personal experience, that's not been the case, it's been more in line with Ajahn Sumedho's discussion of ritual.

:anjali:
Mike

jan fessel
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by jan fessel »

mikenz66 wrote:Yes, it's possible that some may be "sprinkling" it in a way that would come under the definitions of that sutta. In my personal experience, that's not been the case, it's been more in line with Ajahn Sumedho's discussion of ritual.

:anjali:
Mike
I agree.

:anjali:

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gavesako
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by gavesako »

Ajahn Chah, although he generally discouraged all kinds of rituals and did not hand out amulets or winning lottery numbers, did sometimes do the water sprinkling on appropriate occasions as a blessing for the lay people. But in Thailand huge ceremonies are often organized with the entire hall being covered with white string tied up and touching every person's head, and then the "holy water" is made with a lot of chanting and ritual and so on. That is what Ajahn Chah would refrain from doing.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
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Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

jan fessel
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Re: Buddhawajana.

Post by jan fessel »

gavesako wrote:Ajahn Chah, although he generally discouraged all kinds of rituals and did not hand out amulets or winning lottery numbers, did sometimes do the water sprinkling on appropriate occasions as a blessing for the lay people. But in Thailand huge ceremonies are often organized with the entire hall being covered with white string tied up and touching every person's head, and then the "holy water" is made with a lot of chanting and ritual and so on. That is what Ajahn Chah would refrain from doing.
Interesting. Thank you very much ven.bhikkhu Gavesako.

:anjali:

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