Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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stuka
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by stuka » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:16 pm

Looks like you have already convinced yourself of whatever it is that you want to believe. Why are you asking us jackals for our opinions, then...? :roll:

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Annapurna
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:04 pm

stuka wrote:
Annabel wrote:
Ouch! That hurts ....I'm sure this is some colorful language, but what happened to right speech and to compassion? :o
It is being balanced with experience and clear-seeing.
One day, that poor attention-seeking moron will attempt to strut and showboat his way through some desperate soul's front door just long enough for them to place both barrels of a 12-gauge right on his lips and splatter his brains all over the following cameras and your television screen.
Boah...!!!


Please.


Ah, please, ...what...?
Anyhow, even though I am obviously less familiar with the series and Dog Chapman as most members here, I hear he caught a serial rapist , for which I assume a lot of victims and possible future victims and families are thankful.
You really think that wasn't staged and all set up nice and safe for him....?
I am also quite sure with this he accumulated good karma.
...yeah...sure... :roll:
I also know that the local auhtorities often can't or won't investigate and search as thouroughly as necessary,- they are often not as motivated to work as selfemployed people whose livelihood depends on success, and not on physical presence in their shift.
Sounds like a rather broad and self-serving over-generalization to me. You haven't been following the recent activities of the Denver Metro police forces lately, I can see.
I don't think there is anything wrong with catching criminals, is there?

Many jobs are dangerous.

Life will kill ya anyhow.
retreat, retreat, retreat....
It is being balanced with experience and clear-seeing.
Are you saying that wrong speech is allowed and a lack of compassion is also excused as long as you have experience and clarity of ---what exactly?
Ah, please, ...what...?
I was hoping you would understand without elaboration. Since you asked, kindly :

I hope to enjoy gentle speech and compassion and sympathy for all beings, as that is what the Tathagatha taught us... :)

It hurts me when you call Steve Irwin a moron... Do you really want to hurt me? :?

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Annapurna
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:06 pm

Had to split up the message, here is the rest.
You really think that wasn't staged and all set up nice and safe for him....?
No, I didn't initially think so.
...yeah...sure... :roll:
Putting a serial rapist behind bars is good, or no? No more suffering and trauma for more daughters, sisters, wifes, and their families.

Reduction of suffering...

So, why wouldn't it generate good karma when you reduce the suffering for others?

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Annapurna
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:10 pm

Sounds like a rather broad and self-serving over-generalization to me.
That self-employed people have a different attitude to work?

It is a general view, sure, because you have exceptions to the rule everywhere.

But where is it self serving? What do I gain from stating facts reality presents?

It is a fact for me, based on experience and comparison. I'm not saying employed people are not with genuine joy, interest and devotion at work, but you can (in general) multiply it for the self employed and employers because.

No work- no food. No unemployment money when there is no work.

You'd probably have to be there to know.

Back to right livelihood?

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:15 pm

stuka wrote:Looks like you have already convinced yourself of whatever it is that you want to believe. Why are you asking us jackals for our opinions, then...? :roll:
First of all, I'm not calling anybody a jackal here, whatever that implies, you do. Jackal....hm :?:

Then: If I were already convinced why would I start a topic and ask what others are thinking? That makes no sense.

Do I have to agree with everything that others say, even if it doesn't sit perfectly right with me yet, or can we discuss this some more when I have further thoughts?

Is that a problem, somehow?
Last edited by Annapurna on Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thecap
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by thecap » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:17 pm

Annabel wrote:Right livelihood ? Yes or No? :twisted:
I'm not sure, it depends on the answers to some questions, for instance...

1. Are the people that are hunted down proven to be guilty by the law, or are they just main suspects?

2. Do the bounty hunters abide by the law, or is their main advantage over common criminal investigation that they can circumvent the law?

etc.

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:34 pm

Hello, thecap,

I was inspired to start this topic after zapping into a late nite series of Dog- the bounty-hunter.
1. Are the people that are hunted down proven to be guilty by the law, or are they just main suspects?
From what I know, as I don't watch it that often, Dog hunts criminals who escape, or are not caught yet after an offense, with a "wanted" thing, or who don't show up by their probation officer.
2. Do the bounty hunters abide by the law, or is their main advantage over common criminal investigation that they can circumvent the law?
If they would use unlawful means, it would get documented by the cameras, and get them into trouble.

I don't think they would be allowed to further do it.

Also the Police has to abide by the laws.

Evidence obtained by illegal means is not admitted to courts, for istance.

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by kc2dpt » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:42 pm

For those that maintain bounty-hunting is wrong livelihood, do you also believe police-officer is wrong livelihood? If no, then can you explain what you think the difference is? What makes bounty-hunting wrong livelihood and police-officer right livelihood?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:45 pm

Peter wrote:For those that maintain bounty-hunting is wrong livelihood, do you also believe police-officer is wrong livelihood? If no, then can you explain what you think the difference is? What makes bounty-hunting wrong livelihood and police-officer right livelihood?
Yes, what?
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by thecap » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm

Peter wrote:For those that maintain bounty-hunting is wrong livelihood, do you also believe police-officer is wrong livelihood? If no, then can you explain what you think the difference is? What makes bounty-hunting wrong livelihood and police-officer right livelihood?
One might ask, why do bounty hunters exist in the first place?

Unlike police officers, they're motivated by earning more money after all. They're more efficient.

One might say, but the criminals have done bad things, so what are one or two minor transgressions?

Right, but I think there's a good reason police officers have to have every bullet and every movement recorded.

Suppose a butcher claims he doesn't really "kill", because the animals are bred for the very purpose of being killed and would not be born otherwise, or that if the butcher didn't do his job someone else would do it. But he still kills and is considered doing Wrong Livelihood.

Likewise, a bounty hunter might have some minor unlawful transgressions, motivated by earning more money and putting dangerous criminals behind bars. But as long as money is the main motivation, I think the odds are high that he won't refrain from unlawful transgressions, if there's a chance of not being held responsible for it. But those would still be transgressions, as well as killing animals that are bred for the very purpose of being killed and wouldn't live otherwise is still considered killing. Just my opinion.
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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:37 pm

why do bounty hunters exist in the first place?
The Police offers rewards for criminals when they don't have a clue about their whereabouts and need support from the civilians.

The criminals have to go shopping, buy gas, so somebody has to see them, eventually.

A rewards is offered when there is a great interest in getting a hold of them due to the danger thy pose to the public. Like drugdealers...

I heard Dog got a medal for his fight against certain a drug. "Ice"?
Unlike police officers, they're motivated by earning more money after all.
Like police- officers, they are motivated to make money, at all. It's a full time professional job.

Investigation like a private detective- bureau, as nobody will call them and say; Hey, here i am!

This is hard work, I think, and honestly, when the police can't trace criminals down, and they can, they must be doing a helluva good job...

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:52 pm

But as long as money is the main motivation, I think the odds are high that he won't refrain from unlawful transgressions, if there's a chance of not being held responsible for it.
I think money is the driving force for almost everybody who has to go to work to make a living, do you agree?

So if money, as you say, is the driving force, then why would, of all jobs, those who help and support the police ad laws, be more susceptible to transgress than the rest?

It doesn't seem very likely, does it?

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by thecap » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:32 pm

Annabel wrote:
But as long as money is the main motivation, I think the odds are high that he won't refrain from unlawful transgressions, if there's a chance of not being held responsible for it.
I think money is the driving force for almost everybody who has to go to work to make a living, do you agree?

So if money, as you say, is the driving force, then why would, of all jobs, those who help and support the police ad laws, be more susceptible to transgress than the rest?

It doesn't seem very likely, does it?
Hi Annabel

I think it does.

Both police and bounty hunters catch criminals to make a living, as you say.

But a police officer has a steady income, while for the bounty hunter it's an all-or-nothing situation: Fear of not making a living at all and desire to make lots of money.

There's more pressure and less control involved in the bounty hunter's business.

This can and does make a human more susceptible to transgress the law than the rest.

I'm not saying that all bounty hunters are evil. I'm sure there are good ones too.

But assuming all bounty hunters respect the law would be a little bit starry-eyed. I think reality follows different rules than television.

Also, arguments like FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) of dangerous criminals and spooky terrorists are constantly used to let people act as if they were beyond the law. Bounty hunters, secret service agents, you name it.

I think someone who is pressured by the very nature of his business to act from time to time as if he is beyond the law isn't any better than those who do so willfully.

Let me give you an example.

Suppose a bounty hunter kills someone (oops!) while hunting down someone else who killed someone. Suppose this bounty hunter was not filmed by a surveillance camera.

Now, what do you think is more probable. Will the bounty hunter voluntarily surrender himself to the police, or will he rather try to hide it?

Thus I think bounty hunting is Wrong Livelihood, as much a being a secret service agent and butchering are Wrong Livelihood.

But I'd be happy if you could prove me wrong. :)

May I ask, are you personally involved with that business, do you know someone who is, or is it because of the popular tv show that you were asking?

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:54 pm

May I ask, are you personally involved with that business, do you know someone who is, or is it because of the popular tv show that you were asking?
hello, thecap, yes, of course you may ask.

This is how I started the topic:
Perhaps you have watched the US series "Dog" the bounty- hunter from Hawaii on TV.

I watched it yesterday, suddenly wondering what type of livelihood that is.
So no, I am not a bounty hunter, and don't personally know anybody who is. It is because of the show I happened to zap into.

But I know everything about working self employed and employing people.
But a police officer has a steady income, while for the bounty hunter it's an all-or-nothing situation: Fear of not making a living at all and desire to make lots of money.
Why do you think of being self -employed as a "all or nothing situation? " It is just not the same each month. Think of farmers and painters, -no work in the winter. Lots of work in the summer. A bounty hunter has work each month, for one, because criminality booms, and then, because criminals go underground each month.

Desire for lots of money is not what drives me, although I don't mind, and I think I can speak for many other self employed people here as well:

To do what you really want to do, to manifest your dream, is what makes many people put up with the risks of self employment.
I'm not saying that all bounty hunters are evil. I'm sure there are good ones too.
Oh, my dear! But that almost sounds like you think that the vast majority of bounty hunters is evil....when you say: "I'm sure there are good ones too..."

Could it be that you feel that "headhunting" is bad,- that it is nasty to do that?

Perhaps you've watched Wild West movies which didn't show them as nice human beings...?

I could understand that.

But Dog Chapman doesn't appear evil to me at all.

More later, it's a pleasure to speak with you.

Annabel

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Re: Bounty-hunters-wrong livelihood? Or a good job?

Post by Annapurna » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:05 pm

I have to split up the post, since the board doesn't accept more than 3 quotes per post,you see?
Suppose a bounty hunter kills someone (oops!) while hunting down someone else who killed someone. Suppose this bounty hunter was not filmed by a surveillance camera.

Now, what do you think is more probable. Will the bounty hunter voluntarily surrender himself to the police, or will he rather try to hide it?

Thus I think bounty hunting is Wrong Livelihood, as much a being a secret service agent and butchering are Wrong Livelihood.
Dear the cap,

I usually try to avoid to engage in speculations...hypothetical situations.

What one bounty hunter does may not be what another does, as in other professions too. . So a judgement cannot be passed, not from me. Likewise, we can't speculate or foresee what a cop would do in the same situation.
But I'd be happy if you could prove me wrong.
I don't want to prove you wrong. But I thank you for your kindness and respect. :)

Annabel

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