Has anyone here heard this saying before or know its possible origin? Could they possibly elaborate on its meaning?In Theravada there is a saying: "Dogs do it better".
"Dogs do it better"
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"Dogs do it better"
On another forum I visit, someone said:
- Dhammanando
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
Hi Individual,
The only thing that comes to mind is the Soṇa Sutta (AN. iii. 221-2), where the Buddha describes the five ways in which dogs are better than brahmins, owing to the latter's discarding of their ancient customs. It's one of a series of suttas where the Buddha decries how the brahmins of his day had degenerated. To paraphrase:
1. Dogs only have sex with other dogs, whereas brahmins, though formerly having sex only with other brahmins, nowadays will do it with women from any caste.
2. Dogs only have sex when the bitch is in season, whereas brahmins will do it at any time.
3. Dogs don't buy and sell bitches, but rather, will mate according to mutual affection. Brahmins do buy and sell lady brahmins.
4. Dogs don't hoard silver, gold, grain etc., but brahmins do.
5. Dogs go looking for their evening meal in the evening and their morning meal in the morning. Brahmins stuff themselves silly and then keep the leftovers for the next meal.
"Verily, bhikkhus, these are the five ancient brahmin dhammas that are nowadays practised by dogs but not by brahmins."
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
The only thing that comes to mind is the Soṇa Sutta (AN. iii. 221-2), where the Buddha describes the five ways in which dogs are better than brahmins, owing to the latter's discarding of their ancient customs. It's one of a series of suttas where the Buddha decries how the brahmins of his day had degenerated. To paraphrase:
1. Dogs only have sex with other dogs, whereas brahmins, though formerly having sex only with other brahmins, nowadays will do it with women from any caste.
2. Dogs only have sex when the bitch is in season, whereas brahmins will do it at any time.
3. Dogs don't buy and sell bitches, but rather, will mate according to mutual affection. Brahmins do buy and sell lady brahmins.
4. Dogs don't hoard silver, gold, grain etc., but brahmins do.
5. Dogs go looking for their evening meal in the evening and their morning meal in the morning. Brahmins stuff themselves silly and then keep the leftovers for the next meal.
"Verily, bhikkhus, these are the five ancient brahmin dhammas that are nowadays practised by dogs but not by brahmins."
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
- tiltbillings
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
And who said the Buddha did not have a sense of humor.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
i think it may be a buddhadasa reference, or maybe ajahn chah? but i remember something about dogs from one of them....
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
Touche...tiltbillings wrote:And who said the Buddha did not have a sense of humor.

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Re: "Dogs do it better"
When you put it in English translation, it sort of sounds like one of the bad rap songs.
Re: "Dogs do it better"
Who let the dogggs out?
Boom. Boom. Boomboom.

Boom. Boom. Boomboom.

Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
Dhammanando wrote:Hi Individual,
The only thing that comes to mind is the Soṇa Sutta (AN. iii. 221-2), where the Buddha describes the five ways in which dogs are better than brahmins, owing to the latter's discarding of their ancient customs. It's one of a series of suttas where the Buddha decries how the brahmins of his day had degenerated. To paraphrase:
1. Dogs only have sex with other dogs, whereas brahmins, though formerly having sex only with other brahmins, nowadays will do it with women from any caste.
2. Dogs only have sex when the bitch is in season, whereas brahmins will do it at any time.
3. Dogs don't buy and sell bitches, but rather, will mate according to mutual affection. Brahmins do buy and sell lady brahmins.
4. Dogs don't hoard silver, gold, grain etc., but brahmins do.
5. Dogs go looking for their evening meal in the evening and their morning meal in the morning. Brahmins stuff themselves silly and then keep the leftovers for the next meal.
"Verily, bhikkhus, these are the five ancient brahmin dhammas that are nowadays practised by dogs but not by brahmins."
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

I have sadly observed the same quality, with regards to my own behavior. Many dogs don't get angry or neurotic or depressed in the way that human beings do.
Re: "Dogs do it better"
Ralf Mo made it up.Individual wrote:Has anyone here heard this saying before or know its possible origin? Could they possibly elaborate on its meaning?
However, it is reassuring to learn the Buddha had the same notion.
Re: "Dogs do it better"
I have to admit, that is a pretty convincing example.tiltbillings wrote:And who said the Buddha did not have a sense of humor.
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Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
http://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/ ... ali-canon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: "Dogs do it better"
Where does this concept of dogs being better than brahmins in these ways come from?Dhammanando wrote:The only thing that comes to mind is the Soṇa Sutta (AN. iii. 221-2), where the Buddha describes the five ways in which dogs are better than brahmins, owing to the latter's discarding of their ancient customs.
Re: "Dogs do it better"
And what if this sutta was a late addition?
To me it sounds like pure ill-will and I cannot imagine the Buddha saying such things
To me it sounds like pure ill-will and I cannot imagine the Buddha saying such things
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
It is not out of character of other suttas in relation to the Brahmins. Modern day sensibilities likely are not necessarily appropriate in determining what the Buddha said or did not say. There is a fair amount of very sharp humor used in the suttas.Sekha wrote:And what if this sutta was a late addition?
To me it sounds like pure ill-will and I cannot imagine the Buddha saying such things
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: "Dogs do it better"
One may well suggest the same thing about them. Actually, some suttas indicate that some mentions to brahmins have been later additions to the text. See for example MN 53.tiltbillings wrote:It is not out of character of other suttas in relation to the Brahmins.
This argument may apply to the problem of latent misogyny but in this case I don't think modern sensibility to harshness is any different from what it was in the past.Modern day sensibilities likely are not necessarily appropriate in determining what the Buddha said or did not say.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli
http://www.buddha-vacana.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.buddha-vacana.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Dhammanando
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
Typically brahmin-bashing Suttas are addressed to a brahmin enquirer (or challenger) whom the Buddha sees as having the potential for awakening, or at least for conversion, but who in the meantime is so bloated with caste conceit as to be unteachable. So the Buddha will begin by taking the man down a peg or two and teach him the Dhamma only when he’s suitably softened.Sekha wrote:To me it sounds like pure ill-will and I cannot imagine the Buddha saying such things
In the present case, however, the Sutta is addressed to bhikkhus and no context is given. Perhaps the purpose is to provide the listeners with material to be used for the above teaching tactic.
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
You can try to massage the suttas to fit your sentiments, but the reality is, of course, a bit different from what you wish were true.Sekha wrote:One may well suggest the same thing about them. Actually, some suttas indicate that some mentions to brahmins have been later additions to the text. See for example MN 53.tiltbillings wrote:It is not out of character of other suttas in relation to the Brahmins.
This argument may apply to the problem of latent misogyny but in this case I don't think modern sensibility to harshness is any different from what it was in the past.Modern day sensibilities likely are not necessarily appropriate in determining what the Buddha said or did not say.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- Dhammanando
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Re: "Dogs do it better"
I take it that you’re referring to the verse:Sekha wrote:Actually, some suttas indicate that some mentions to brahmins have been later additions to the text. See for example MN 53.
and to your (or is it Ven. Thanissaro’s?) footnote to it:And by the Brahma Sanankumara this verse was said:
The noble warrior is the best among people
When judging by clan.
But a person consummate in clear-knowing & conduct,
Is the best of beings, human & divine.
This verse was well-sung by the Brahma Sanankumara, not ill-sung; well-said, not ill-said; connected with the goal, not unconnected with the goal. It was endorsed by the Blessed One.
“This verse, concerned with disputing the dominant position of brahmans in the cast system, is obviously not, as claimed in the following paragraph, "connected with the goal." It rather sounds like polemical nonsense.”
Actually what we have here is a literary device that occurs numerous times in the Dhammapada and the SN’s Sagāthavagga. First there will be a line or verse expressing some mundane commonplace (that may or may not be in accordance with Dhamma). This will then be trumped by a subsequent line or verse expressing the Dhamma. The “connected with the goal” attribute applies of course to the latter, not to the more pedestrian utterance that served as its springboard.
Re: "Dogs do it better"
Holy moley, a post or two from the Venerable Dhammanando.


"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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