Running away or not is not relevant, because it might merely be an instinctual, automatic response, not something done "consciously" out of a reaction to pain.termite wrote:Do they try to run away, or not?Individual wrote:Also, in case it's not already ridiculously and abundantly obviously clear: A lobster's faculties would not be the same as a human's faculties. They would have lobster senses including lobster mind, which does not necessarily have vedana. They might be able to see, to feel heat, pressure, texture, etc., but not necessarily the sensation of "pain" from "too much" heat, pressure, being stabbed, etc..
Lobsters have nervous systems, and their ability to sense heat, pressure, etc., are affected by the application of anesthesia. The ability to feel pain is an evolutionary advantage, and it's highly unlikely that an animal would possess a nervous system, while not possessing the ability to make use of that system!
From your second link: "Additionally, an independent study funded by the Norwegian government found that the nervous systems of lobsters are too simple to process pain. " A fine example of an independent and unbiased source...
It seems to me that those who "find" that lobsters don't feel pain are those who are interested in believing that to be the case.
More importantly we should ask: Do they have a well-developed nervous system capable of actually sensing injury as a feeling of pain, rather than merely reacting instinctually when certain potential threats are detected? And if they are capable of sensing injurry, is their nervous system well-developed enough that they have a capacity for "suffering" (the emotional anguish associated with pain)?
This can be demonstrated by examining their neurology and by experimenting on them, by seeing if there is any difference between the response to painful stimuli (i.e. acid poured on them, having a limb sliced off, being boiled in hot water) and merely agitating stimuli (i.e. pouring a non-acidic control solution on them, pinning them down, shooting jets of water at them). With human beings, if you pour a nasty smelling but harmless substance on them, there would be a difference than if you dumped sulphuric acid on them... If you merely pin them down, there'd be a difference there than if you sliced a limb off. And, again, if you boiled a human in hot water, there'd be a different response than if you merely shot jets of water at them or put them in a lukewarm jacuzzi.
But, on the other hand, if you take most insects, for instance, there seems to be no distinction in their responses to different kinds of agitating stimuli, because they don't apparently have the psychological capacity for what we call "pain". If the same holds true for lobsters, being invertebrates, then they do not feel pain either.