I've been noticing that my vipassana practice and mindfulness practice seem to be basically the same activity, which I'd describe as observing whatever arises.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
Spiny
Vipassana is mindfulness?
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Vipassana is to see things as they are..nothing less , nothing more...and it is Mindfullness that reminds us to do that.
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Hi Spiny
Sati is a factor of both samatha and vipassana.
kind regards
Ben
Sati is a factor of both samatha and vipassana.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
i dont know how that can be called vipassana, since everything that normally arises is wrong.which I'd describe as observing whatever arises.
then the big debate is what exactly does it mean to not be wrong
A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."
- tiltbillings
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Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Huh?5heaps wrote:i dont know how that can be called vipassana, since everything that normally arises is wrong.which I'd describe as observing whatever arises.
then the big debate is what exactly does it mean to not be wrong
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
there are two truths, conventional truth and ultimate truth. ordinary objects of ordinary cognition are illustrations of conventional truths. the point of vipassana is not to realize conventional truths. is there something more particular you are disagreeing with?tiltbillings wrote:Huh?5heaps wrote:i dont know how that can be called vipassana, since everything that normally arises is wrong.which I'd describe as observing whatever arises.
A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Hi 5heaps
I'm having trouble understanding your statement:
Thanks
Ben
I'm having trouble understanding your statement:
Could you please explain it?i dont know how that can be called vipassana, since everything that normally arises is wrong.
Thanks
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
did you see the post above about the two truths?Ben wrote:Could you please explain it?
for example, the hand which appears to a mind apprehending it obstructs the apprehension of its ultimate truth, namely the ultimate particles that make up the hand.
therefore a conventional truth is truth for a deceived mind (ie. one which is unable to realize the nature of reality - ultimate truth). this fake truth is what it means to see, believe, and run a life by way of unchanging, monolithic etc characteristics, even though they dont even slightly exist.
A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Vipassana is a quality of the mind - the ability to see things without the taint of delusion. There are many meditative practices that can develop vipassana. The most commonly employed are samatha and sati developed by means of the various practices described in the sati-patthana sutta.
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
I thought it was to see things as they really are, eg the 3 characteristics?5heaps wrote:... the point of vipassana is not to realize conventional truths.
Spiny
- Spiny O'Norman
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- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
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Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Thanks, that looks like a good summary. I think what I was trying to say is that sati "off the cushion" seems quite similar to insight meditation, ie both involve paying close attention to what is happening.pilgrim wrote:Vipassana is a quality of the mind - the ability to see things without the taint of delusion. There are many meditative practices that can develop vipassana. The most commonly employed are samatha and sati developed by means of the various practices described in the sati-patthana sutta.
Spiny
- Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Vipassana helps us to see that all conditioned phenomenom are impermanent and outside of our control.They arise and they cease.When our mind is focused on on the rising and falling of the abdomin,we see that there is a beginning to the rising and an ending to the arising.Then we have a beginning to the falling and an ending to the falling.It can not continue to rise nor can it continue to fall,it is impermanent and outside of our control,therefore nor self,for if it were self we could tell it to keep rising.Try doing that,it hurts.Yeah I was dumb enough to check it out.
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
in what way is the observation of whatever arises an observation of the way things are? can you give an example?Spiny O'Norman wrote:I thought it was to see things as they really
indeed. but what type of self is it that is not in control? its possible to understand the lack of a controller self independent of the heaps without understanding the remaining factorsgoingforth wrote:it is impermanent and outside of our control,therefore nor self
A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
Mindfulness is a factor of vipassana. While one becomes more and more mindful with Sampajañña one will see the true nature of things as they manifest themselves at the moment - which will boost one's vipassana.Spiny O'Norman wrote:I've been noticing that my vipassana practice and mindfulness practice seem to be basically the same activity, which I'd describe as observing whatever arises.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
Spiny
"The observation of whatever arises" means the observation of the things as manifested or as experienced, that is the way things are at this moment.5heaps wrote:in what way is the observation of whatever arises an observation of the way things are? can you give an example?Spiny O'Norman wrote:I thought it was to see things as they really
The observation need not be the observation of "the ultimate truth" of things. The observation is to see how "the conventional truth" changes to deeper truths, and of course finally to "the ultimate truth", if there is any.
For example, in vedananupassana, in the beginning one will observe coarse sensations. But after observation matures, the sensations will manifest themselves as more and more subtle (and finally to the subtlest level). Thus whatever is manifested each moment, is the truth of that moment.
The "ultimate truth" should unfold itself while observation deepens. It is not something that we should project on things beforehand.
Just intellectual understanding is not enough for deep insight. How does one know initially, by one's actual experience, that the hand is ultimately nothing but a heap of "wave-particles"? One must begin with the conventional truth that one experiences initially--that this is hand, and while one proceeds observing the hand with Sampajañña he/she will ultimately see its ultimate truth too. Of course, if one misses Sampajañña during observation he/she will stick with the conventional truth which will obstruct the apprehension of ultimate truth, as you said.for example, the hand which appears to a mind apprehending it obstructs the apprehension of its ultimate truth, namely the ultimate particles that make up the hand.
Re: Vipassana is mindfulness?
i see. is this unfolding supposed to happen with the mere continuation and cultivation of concentration, or does it also require insight (ie. cessation of ignorance due to performing analysis)?SamKR wrote:The "ultimate truth" should unfold itself while observation deepens.
thats precisely my point. one doesnt. simple observance of conventional truth doesnt count as even an intellectual understanding - its simply wrong with regard to reality (ie. the nature of things).Just intellectual understanding is not enough for deep insight. How does one know initially, by one's actual experience, that the hand is ultimately nothing but a heap of "wave-particles"?for example, the hand which appears to a mind apprehending it obstructs the apprehension of its ultimate truth, namely the ultimate particles that make up the hand.
A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."