Buddhism and Abortion.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

edited to include quote...below.
Last edited by Sanghamitta on Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

Annapurna wrote:Theravada Buddhism views the beginning of life at conception. So abortion is about killing life. First precept.

If a 12 year old gets pregnant through rape, or paternal abuse, she may be traumatized already.

If she is physically not fully matured yet, as many girls who start menstruating as almost children, she may get traumatized even further. So saving her life and health may have priority, depending on her state.

What the Catholic churchs thinks or says is none of my biz.

I couldn't care less. Nor am I interested in condemning them.

All this fingerpointing at others bores me to death.

Having read and reread your post Annapurna I have no idea what your position is on this issue, and I see no evidence of "finger pointing " on the thread.

Edit:


PS: I'd say that a 12 year old has a higher developped awareness and ability to suffer than an 8 weeks old embryo.

But it's always a pity if it gets ripped from the mothers womb, -the safest place a human being normally has on this planet...
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Annapurna »

Will wrote:
The present Dalai Lama said plainly: "Consciousness enters at the time of conception itself. To murder a human means to kill either a human or something forming as a human, the latter referring to the period from right after conception until birth."
Hi, Will, I recall a discussion from e sangha, where HHDL quailified his stance thus:
Social stances

The Dalai Lama reminds that according to Buddhist precepts abortion is an act of killing,[37] although he has said that there can be an exception for "if the unborn child will be retarded or if the birth will create serious problems for the parent", qualifying his approval or disapproval according to each individual abortion.[38]
From http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we ... dw&cad=rja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,

Annapurna :anjali:
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

Is there a view that the Dalai Lama's opinion has particular significance ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Annapurna wrote:
Will wrote:
The present Dalai Lama said plainly: "Consciousness enters at the time of conception itself. To murder a human means to kill either a human or something forming as a human, the latter referring to the period from right after conception until birth."
Hi, Will, I recall a discussion from e sangha, where HHDL quailified his stance thus:
Social stances

The Dalai Lama reminds that according to Buddhist precepts abortion is an act of killing,[37] although he has said that there can be an exception for "if the unborn child will be retarded or if the birth will create serious problems for the parent", qualifying his approval or disapproval according to each individual abortion.[38]
From http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we ... dw&cad=rja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,

Annapurna :anjali:
Hiho Annapurna. The Dalai Lama was not quoted for his "approval", but because he gave a concise statement about Buddha's teaching on abortion.

Karma-vipaka is always, for any act, modified by the motive. So the mother & the abortionist's reluctance or eagerness to abort will, respectively, lessen or increase the bad effects of such killing karma.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

Can you point me to the Buddhas teaching on abortion that the Dalai Lama pointed to Will ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Sanghamitta wrote:Can you point me to the Buddhas teaching on abortion that the Dalai Lama pointed to Will ?
No, I do not know his source.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Hi Sanghamitta

I'm not sure if this is what your looking for or if it was already quoted but here it goes, from "Buddhist Monastic Code I" by Ajahn Thanissaro:


The Vibhaṅga defines a human being as a person "from the time consciousness first becomes manifest in a mother's womb, up to its death-time." It follows from this that a bhikkhu who intentionally causes an abortion — by arranging for the operation, supplying the medicines, or giving advice that results in an abortion — incurs a pārājika. A bhikkhu who encourages a woman to use a means of contraception that works after the point of conception would be guilty of a pārājika if she were to follow his advice.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Annapurna »

Will wrote:
Annapurna wrote:
Will wrote:
The present Dalai Lama said plainly: "Consciousness enters at the time of conception itself. To murder a human means to kill either a human or something forming as a human, the latter referring to the period from right after conception until birth."
Hi, Will, I recall a discussion from e sangha, where HHDL quailified his stance thus:
Social stances

The Dalai Lama reminds that according to Buddhist precepts abortion is an act of killing,[37] although he has said that there can be an exception for "if the unborn child will be retarded or if the birth will create serious problems for the parent", qualifying his approval or disapproval according to each individual abortion.[38]
From http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we ... dw&cad=rja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,

Annapurna :anjali:
Hiho Annapurna. The Dalai Lama was not quoted for his "approval", but because he gave a concise statement about Buddha's teaching on abortion.

Karma-vipaka is always, for any act, modified by the motive. So the mother & the abortionist's reluctance or eagerness to abort will, respectively, lessen or increase the bad effects of such killing karma.
"Hiho..."

I like that. :smile:

I agree.
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

Will wrote:
Annapurna wrote:
Will wrote:
The present Dalai Lama said plainly: "Consciousness enters at the time of conception itself. To murder a human means to kill either a human or something forming as a human, the latter referring to the period from right after conception until birth."
Hi, Will, I recall a discussion from e sangha, where HHDL quailified his stance thus:
Social stances

The Dalai Lama reminds that according to Buddhist precepts abortion is an act of killing,[37] although he has said that there can be an exception for "if the unborn child will be retarded or if the birth will create serious problems for the parent", qualifying his approval or disapproval according to each individual abortion.[38]
From http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we ... dw&cad=rja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,

Annapurna :anjali:
Hiho Annapurna. The Dalai Lama was not quoted for his "approval", but because he gave a concise statement about Buddha's teaching on abortion.

Karma-vipaka is always, for any act, modified by the motive. So the mother & the abortionist's reluctance or eagerness to abort will, respectively, lessen or increase the bad effects of such killing karma.
Thank you Modus Ponens, I am aware of the Theravada majority view on abortion I was actually wondering which of the Buddhas teachings on abortion the Dalai Lama gave a precis of "concisely." As mentioned by Will.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Annapurna »

The Dalai lamas statement was taken from this interview:

http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/arc ... m=12&p=5_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

So I repeat my question. Are we to ascribe particular authority to the Dalai Lama ? I his opinion on abortion more authoritative than Ajahn Thanissaro 's for example ? Or the Popes ? Or Germain Greer's ? If so, why ?
Furthermore I read the Dalai lama own view of abortion..I did not notice any concise rendition of the Buddhas position. Unless we are to assume that like the Pope the Dalai Lama speaks ex cathedra.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

Lest there be any misunderstanding I do think that we can deduce the main strands of the Buddhist view on the complex issue of abortion .
I am not however sure that the Dalai Lama view is particularly authoritative one way or another outside of one particular sect of Tibetan Buddhism on this or any other subject. If he had made a concise statement which summarised the Buddhas position that would be a different matter. But I think that there are a lot more reasoned and cogent Buddhist debates on the subject of abortion than those produced by the Dalai Lama.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Annapurna »

Just in case Sanghamitta is replying to me, I can't see her posts.
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Sanghamitta »

Annapurna wrote:Just in case Sanghamitta is replying to me, I can't see her posts.
I wasn't actually, I was replying to Will, but presumably you cant see that one either... :rofl:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
Post Reply