Freawaru wrote:If he knows this inside another person - the moral issues are severe. I mean, we don't have laws against invading the personal sphere of other persons in this way but if what you suggest is true maybe we should.
Also, it seems to me as if the translation can lead one to think in one direction or in another. Some translations use "internally and externally" and others "in regard to himself - in regard to another" like here
http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/T ... assana.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If the thought were in 'my mind', I couldn't think of it as invasion of another person's mind, no matter where it came from.
Translations can be leading, as at freawaru's link, and I thought the DN18 quote was going to be an exact copy of the MN10 Pali ajjhatta/bahiddhaa bit with an extended English interpretation added, but the Pali there
is different:
The same DN18 quote -- ‘‘‘Taṃ kiṃ maññanti, bhonto devā tāvatiṃsā, yāva supaññattā cime tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena cattāro satipaṭṭhānā paññattā kusalassādhigamāya. Katame cattāro? Idha , bho, bhikkhu ajjhattaṃ kāye kāyānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ. Ajjhattaṃ kāye kāyānupassī viharanto tattha sammā samādhiyati, sammā vippasīdati. So tattha sammā samāhito sammā vippasanno bahiddhā
parakāyeñāṇadassanaṃ
abhinibbatteti. Ajjhattaṃ vedanāsu vedanānupassī viharati…pe… bahiddhā
paravedanāsu ñāṇadassanaṃ
abhinibbatteti. Ajjhattaṃ citte cittānupassī viharati…pe… bahiddhā
paracitte ñāṇadassanaṃ
abhinibbatteti. Ajjhattaṃ dhammesu dhammānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ. Ajjhattaṃ dhammesu dhammānupassī viharanto tattha sammā samādhiyati, sammā vippasīdati. So tattha sammā samāhito sammā vippasanno bahiddhā
paradhammesu ñāṇadassanaṃ
abhinibbatteti. Ime kho, bho, tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena cattāro satipaṭṭhānā paññattā kusalassādhigamāyā’’ti. Imamatthaṃ, bhante, brahmā sanaṅkumāro bhāsittha. Imamatthaṃ, bhante, brahmā sanaṅkumāro bhāsitvā deve tāvatiṃse āmantesi –
This explicit reference to external meaning others (parakāye, etc,) is lacking in MN10 and elsewhere.
Oh, abhinibbatteti is highlighted because I thought I saw it used in 're-birth' arguments around the site.