Internal Dialogue

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Collective
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Internal Dialogue

Post by Collective » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:39 am

I've been noticing lately I 'talk' my thoughts. It's very much like an internal dialogue I'm having with myself. It feels such an unecessary burden now I'm aware of it.

For example, this morning whilst putting on my running shoes before my run, I caught my mind thinking 'I need new training shoes - these are wrecked'. My mind/thinking said this word for word. Rather than it being merely an impression, or a feeling of needing new shoes it was a formed sentence of conversation.

Is this what some speak of when they mention internal dialogue?

PeterB
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:46 am

Yes. And we all do it I suspect. Sometimes after practice it may fall away for a while. Which is nice. Then a voice pops up and says " this is nice "... :lol:
Just note and return, note and return.

shjohnk
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by shjohnk » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:03 am

PeterB wrote:Yes. And we all do it I suspect. Sometimes after practice it may fall away for a while. Which is nice. Then a voice pops up and says " this is nice "... :lol:
Just note and return, note and return.
:goodpost:
And I've noticed myself after achieving a good meditative state for about 30 seconds telling myself 'Well, gosh i'm doing well aren't i?' So I've been labelling that one 'conceit' and it's starting to obey when I tell it to leave :tongue:

PeterB
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:08 am

The danger in telling it to leave shjonk is that it may come back bringing its brothers. Just note and return.

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Goedert
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Goedert » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:58 am

It happens to anybody.

When we get to much talk in the mind, it is good to do some samatha.

It is good to be aware of this mental talk, we can control it, by controlling it we don't get lost in thoughts, in analysation, etc.

I have a bad expirience in the beginning when I become aware of it. I tried to stop it with the mind, it was very foolish thing. What can we do is let the talk go, see it as not-self and shift the awareness to the breath or to body or to arising and cessation of things in the emptiness of the mind.

Freawaru
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Freawaru » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:01 pm

Collective wrote: For example, this morning whilst putting on my running shoes before my run, I caught my mind thinking 'I need new training shoes - these are wrecked'. My mind/thinking said this word for word. Rather than it being merely an impression, or a feeling of needing new shoes it was a formed sentence of conversation.
Have you checked whether your original assumption isn't right after all? I mean, when you observe the beginning of these kind of thoughts, the thoughts in a language, do you already know what you are going to think in a language or comes it as a surprise when the sentence develops?

For example, when you start to think " I need ..." do you already know what you need before the word "training" is formed in your mind?

Freawaru
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Freawaru » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:03 pm

Goedert wrote:It happens to anybody.

When we get to much talk in the mind, it is good to do some samatha.

It is good to be aware of this mental talk, we can control it, by controlling it we don't get lost in thoughts, in analysation, etc.

I have a bad expirience in the beginning when I become aware of it. I tried to stop it with the mind, it was very foolish thing. What can we do is let the talk go, see it as not-self and shift the awareness to the breath or to body or to arising and cessation of things in the emptiness of the mind.
Hi Goedert,

why was it a foolish thing to do ?

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Sobeh
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Sobeh » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:13 pm

My guess is, there's reigning the mind in and fostering wholesomeness, and there's playing whack-a-mole with the mind. The latter is what I thought of when I read "control". The former is what I thought of when I read "let it go".

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Annapurna
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Annapurna » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:34 pm

Collective wrote:I've been noticing lately I 'talk' my thoughts. It's very much like an internal dialogue I'm having with myself. It feels such an unecessary burden now I'm aware of it.

For example, this morning whilst putting on my running shoes before my run, I caught my mind thinking 'I need new training shoes - these are wrecked'. My mind/thinking said this word for word. Rather than it being merely an impression, or a feeling of needing new shoes it was a formed sentence of conversation.

Is this what some speak of when they mention internal dialogue?


Hey, I'm doing this in 2 languages, and sometimes I have to seriously think about which one it is..... I don't feel uncomfortable about it. :D

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Goedert
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Goedert » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:26 pm

Freawaru wrote:
Goedert wrote:It happens to anybody.

When we get to much talk in the mind, it is good to do some samatha.

It is good to be aware of this mental talk, we can control it, by controlling it we don't get lost in thoughts, in analysation, etc.

I have a bad expirience in the beginning when I become aware of it. I tried to stop it with the mind, it was very foolish thing. What can we do is let the talk go, see it as not-self and shift the awareness to the breath or to body or to arising and cessation of things in the emptiness of the mind.
Hi Goedert,

why was it a foolish thing to do ?
Using mental talk to stop the mental talk. This is something foolish.

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bodom
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by bodom » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:41 pm

Goedert wrote:Using mental talk to stop the mental talk. This is something foolish.
Not so. If one is struggling in meditation with wandering thoughts and proliferation one can use a discursive meditation such as metta, recollection of death or recollecting the qualities of the Buddha to counter the hindrance. By using a discursive meditation subject you can actually tire out the thinking mind. The discursive thinking will become too coarse and heavy and one will naturally want to drop the thinking and focus on a subtle object like the breath.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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Goedert
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Goedert » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:00 pm

bodom wrote:
Goedert wrote:Using mental talk to stop the mental talk. This is something foolish.
Not so. If one is struggling in meditation with wandering thoughts and proliferation one can use a discursive meditation such as metta, recollection of death or recollecting the qualities of the Buddha to counter the hindrance. By using a discursive meditation subject you can actually tire out the thinking mind. The discursive thinking will become too coarse and heavy and one will naturally want to drop the thinking and focus on a subtle object like the breath.

:anjali:
Well said.
:anjali:

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octathlon
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by octathlon » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:49 pm

What about music running through the mind? Thoughts are short--they rise and pass away quickly. But tunes in the mind can just go on and on continuously. I often have a real problem with this. :cry:

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bodom
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by bodom » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:55 pm

octathlon wrote:What about music running through the mind? Thoughts are short--they rise and pass away quickly. But tunes in the mind can just go on and on continuously. I often have a real problem with this. :cry:
I have this problem as well. I just let it play out all the while watching it. Of course if the next song on the playlist comes up its time to hit the stop button. :tongue:

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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Annapurna
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Re: Internal Dialogue

Post by Annapurna » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:57 pm

It shall pass.

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