My teacher is someone who encourages reading the Ultimate Teacher, the Buddha, and discourages reading interpretations (of interpretations) of his teachings, with a very few exceptions.
He hauntingly described the dangers a mind poses that has just a tiny thing of the truth down the wrong way . How mistakes, unclarities and compromising with "modern times" will cause 'ripples' in lineages, schools and most of all, in our minds.
It made sense, and I'm following this instruction to this day.
If I read about the Dhamma, then I read sutthas, the Dhammapada, as close as it can get to the Buddha.
On my bookshelf you won't find hundreds and thousands of interpretations and explanations of the Dhamma- Itruly think that the Buddha was the best teacher anyhow, uncompared, and I don't need all those books.
Why do you? (if you do)
Where does this need come from -to read interpretations?
Are the original teachings really so hard to understand?`Or not enough?
Why are they worth your time and money?
Wouldn't it be better invested in charity?
Thoughts?
With metta,
Annapurna
Teachers
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Re: Teachers
For me it's about wanting to really understand what the words mean. And sometimes I read a sutta and just don't get it.Annapurna wrote:Where does this need come from -to read interpretations?
Sometimes I get confused by the wide range of interpretations out there - I have a sense they can't all be correct, but sometimes I don't have the depth of knowledge to judge. So I just keep practising and try to keep an open mind.
P
Buddha save me from new-agers!
- retrofuturist
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Re: Teachers
Greetings Anna,
I agree - the Buddha's teachings are key, and as a teacher he is beyond compare.
If other works can help to illuminate the Dhamma, help show connections, help us put suttas into context etc. then that is good.
If other works send us on wild goose chases or put false words into the Buddha's mouth, then that is bad.
Retro.
I agree - the Buddha's teachings are key, and as a teacher he is beyond compare.
If other works can help to illuminate the Dhamma, help show connections, help us put suttas into context etc. then that is good.
If other works send us on wild goose chases or put false words into the Buddha's mouth, then that is bad.
Metta,SN 20.7: Ani Sutta wrote:Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained.
"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.
"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Teachers
Hi Anna,
For me it is not so easy to understand and teachers, in person, in print, or in recordings, have been absolutely crucial.
Mike
If the Buddha-Dhamma is so easy to understand why do you have a teacher?Annapurna wrote: Thoughts?
For me it is not so easy to understand and teachers, in person, in print, or in recordings, have been absolutely crucial.
Mike
Re: Teachers
Hi Anna!
When I first found my way to Buddhism I really didnt understand the wording and metaphors in the suttas and the Dhammapada.
But as the years has gone by these writing has become more and more valuable to me and now I read the suttas on a daily basis.
I still read interpretations of the Dhamma by teachers I respect like Ven. Ajahn Chah and Ven. Ajahn Sumedho. I find that their insight and experiance helps me to greater understanding of the Dhamma.
Metta
Claes
When I first found my way to Buddhism I really didnt understand the wording and metaphors in the suttas and the Dhammapada.
But as the years has gone by these writing has become more and more valuable to me and now I read the suttas on a daily basis.
I still read interpretations of the Dhamma by teachers I respect like Ven. Ajahn Chah and Ven. Ajahn Sumedho. I find that their insight and experiance helps me to greater understanding of the Dhamma.
Metta
Claes
" Through effort, attention, restraint and self-control,
the wise person can become and island no flood will overwhelm -Dhammapada
the wise person can become and island no flood will overwhelm -Dhammapada
Re: Teachers
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Savatthi in the Eastern Monastery, the palace of Migara's mother, together with many well-known elder disciples — with Ven. Sariputta, Ven. Maha Moggallana, Ven. Maha Kassapa, Ven. Maha Kaccana, Ven. Maha Kotthita, Ven. Maha Kappina, Ven. Maha Cunda, Ven. Revata, Ven. Ananda, and other well-known elder disciples. On that occasion the elder monks were teaching & instructing. Some elder monks were teaching & instructing ten monks, some were teaching & instructing twenty monks, some were teaching & instructing thirty monks, some were teaching & instructing forty monks. The new monks, being taught & instructed by the elder monks, were discerning grand, successive distinctions.
There were monks who needed teaching and instruction even during the time of the Buddha, how much more so do we need clarification of the practice 2500 years later?
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Teachers
Mike,mikenz66 wrote:Hi Anna,If the Buddha-Dhamma is so easy to understand why do you have a teacher?Annapurna wrote: Thoughts?
For me it is not so easy to understand and teachers, in person, in print, or in recordings, have been absolutely crucial.
Mike
1. I didn't say it was "so easy to understand", I said he was probably the best Dhamma teacher, and we still have his words around.
I'm not questioning the importance of teachers, but the necessity of reading countless new interpretations of the Dhamma.
Sorry, I still call him my teacher.If the Buddha-Dhamma is so easy to understand why do you have a teacher?
I don't have him anymore.
He is not a Buddhist teacher....
But he gave me the Dhammapada...now it is me telling him more about the Buddha.
Last edited by Annapurna on Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Teachers
Thank you, Paul.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Anna,
I agree - the Buddha's teachings are key, and as a teacher he is beyond compare.
If other works can help to illuminate the Dhamma, help show connections, help us put suttas into context etc. then that is good.
If other works send us on wild goose chases or put false words into the Buddha's mouth, then that is bad.
Re: Teachers
That is good. Thank you.Claes wrote:Hi Anna!
When I first found my way to Buddhism I really didnt understand the wording and metaphors in the suttas and the Dhammapada.
But as the years has gone by these writing has become more and more valuable to me and now I read the suttas on a daily basis.
I still read interpretations of the Dhamma by teachers I respect like Ven. Ajahn Chah and Ven. Ajahn Sumedho. I find that their insight and experiance helps me to greater understanding of the Dhamma.
Metta
Claes
A
Re: Teachers
Thank you , Bodom, your reply is showing me that it is necessary to explain, that I am not dismissing the advice of the Elders, of the seniors in Buddhism when we have questions, -I am asking about books, when we already have the sutthas.bodom wrote:http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Savatthi in the Eastern Monastery, the palace of Migara's mother, together with many well-known elder disciples — with Ven. Sariputta, Ven. Maha Moggallana, Ven. Maha Kassapa, Ven. Maha Kaccana, Ven. Maha Kotthita, Ven. Maha Kappina, Ven. Maha Cunda, Ven. Revata, Ven. Ananda, and other well-known elder disciples. On that occasion the elder monks were teaching & instructing. Some elder monks were teaching & instructing ten monks, some were teaching & instructing twenty monks, some were teaching & instructing thirty monks, some were teaching & instructing forty monks. The new monks, being taught & instructed by the elder monks, were discerning grand, successive distinctions.
There were monks who needed teaching and instruction even during the time of the Buddha, how much more so do we need clarification of the practice 2500 years later?
Don't you think that it is possible that a self-acclaimed teacher teaches Adhammma? And makes money this way?
I consider it like reading any other book or discussing here for instance. The difference is that these are often the words of very wise or knowledgaeable people... just as if you wanted to go down a thorny path, and someone might say, over here there are thorns, over there it is slippery, and so on, warning you about dangers they had traversed themselves, these people are knowledgeable about the dangers. The dangers must be... overcome.
So... another reason is that what is to worry about... Reading them taints your mind? Are you kidding? Your mind is getting tainted anyway!!! Have you stepped outside? Have you had a conversation recently? People and things are crazy... they are massively deluded... How are you going to get through samsara if you don't read these people? They are a part of the samsara we live in, dreadful though it may be...
So... another reason is that what is to worry about... Reading them taints your mind? Are you kidding? Your mind is getting tainted anyway!!! Have you stepped outside? Have you had a conversation recently? People and things are crazy... they are massively deluded... How are you going to get through samsara if you don't read these people? They are a part of the samsara we live in, dreadful though it may be...
Re: Teachers
Hi Anna,
As the Buddha taught:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You did say:Annapurna wrote:1. I didn't say it was "so easy to understand", I said he was probably the best Dhamma teacher, and we still have his words around.mikenz66 wrote:Hi Anna,If the Buddha-Dhamma is so easy to understand why do you have a teacher?Annapurna wrote: Thoughts?
For me it is not so easy to understand and teachers, in person, in print, or in recordings, have been absolutely crucial.
I think they are difficult. At least, to put into practise properly.Annapurna wrote: Are the original teachings really so hard to understand?`Or not enough?
Well, yes it is probably pointless to read "countless" books. Mostly I would consult Sutta translations, commetarial works such as the Visuddhimagga, and books and recordings by teachers who clarify the particular approach I use.Annapurna wrote: I'm not questioning the importance of teachers, but the necessity of reading countless new interpretations of the Dhamma.
As the Buddha taught:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mike"As for the individual who has attained neither internal tranquillity of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, he should approach an individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated? How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?'
Re: Teachers
I agree with Mike.
A teacher is absolutely crucial in assisting one with the practical application of the Dhamma - especially as a beginner. Likewise, a judicial selection of literature will support one's own cinta-maya-panna which is a basis for deepening one's own bhavana-maya-panna. My own teacher has a saying that pariyatti and patipatti should go 'hand in hand'.
My core Dhamma books include the suttas and the Vism. Some works by latter-day scholars such as Ledi Sayadaw and Venerable Analayo are also extremely important.
kind regards
Ben
A teacher is absolutely crucial in assisting one with the practical application of the Dhamma - especially as a beginner. Likewise, a judicial selection of literature will support one's own cinta-maya-panna which is a basis for deepening one's own bhavana-maya-panna. My own teacher has a saying that pariyatti and patipatti should go 'hand in hand'.
My core Dhamma books include the suttas and the Vism. Some works by latter-day scholars such as Ledi Sayadaw and Venerable Analayo are also extremely important.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Teachers
Hi Annapurna,
If I'm speaking to someone who speaks my language, and who is from the same culture as I am, then I can make a plain statement using one specific word for a concept and they will likely understand exactly what I mean, but even then they might misunderstand. And if they aren't from my same culture, they are more likely to misunderstand even though we speak the same language. And if they speak a different language and my one word has to be translated to a word or two of their language, much of the subtleties, nuances, and cultural context of my word is lost. Sometimes there isn't even a decent way to translate it at all. Then if they live in a time 2500 years later than my time..., well, I think you can see why I need some commentary and interpretation.
Yes indeed, for me they are hard to understand. The statements of the Buddha are very straightforward and terse.Annapurna wrote: On my bookshelf you won't find hundreds and thousands of interpretations and explanations of the Dhamma- Itruly think that the Buddha was the best teacher anyhow, uncompared, and I don't need all those books.
Why do you? (if you do)
Where does this need come from -to read interpretations?
Are the original teachings really so hard to understand?`Or not enough?
If I'm speaking to someone who speaks my language, and who is from the same culture as I am, then I can make a plain statement using one specific word for a concept and they will likely understand exactly what I mean, but even then they might misunderstand. And if they aren't from my same culture, they are more likely to misunderstand even though we speak the same language. And if they speak a different language and my one word has to be translated to a word or two of their language, much of the subtleties, nuances, and cultural context of my word is lost. Sometimes there isn't even a decent way to translate it at all. Then if they live in a time 2500 years later than my time..., well, I think you can see why I need some commentary and interpretation.
Re: Teachers
Take the example of a pyramid. Taking the bird's eye view on it there may appear a square. Taking the side view there may appear a triangle. Neither a square nor a triangle is a pyramid.Annapurna wrote: On my bookshelf you won't find hundreds and thousands of interpretations and explanations of the Dhamma- Itruly think that the Buddha was the best teacher anyhow, uncompared, and I don't need all those books.
Why do you? (if you do)
Where does this need come from -to read interpretations?
Are the original teachings really so hard to understand?`Or not enough?
Why are they worth your time and money?
Wouldn't it be better invested in charity?
Thoughts?
Or take the simile of the blind men investigating an elephant through touching its parts.
One may believe to have a "holistic view" while actually one has a very limited one.
Kind regards