Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:44 am

Greetings Tep,

No... just suggests that's what we work towards.

I suppose that actually brings us to the heart of this sutta study....

What good are all these descriptions of "ultimate persons", if not as a guide or an ideal to strive towards? Or is it just for us to be reverent?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by dhamma_spoon » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:16 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tep,

No... just suggests that's what we work towards.

I suppose that actually brings us to the heart of this sutta study....

What good are all these descriptions of "ultimate persons", if not as a guide or an ideal to strive towards? Or is it just for us to be reverent?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Hi, friend Retro -

I was waiting for this moment, when we reached a fruitful end!

Definitely, we -- earnest, purposeful Buddhists -- strive towards becoming ultimate persons, sooner (in this life) or later !

Thank you for taking the time. :smile:


Tep
----
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by jcsuperstar » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:15 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tep,

No... just suggests that's what we work towards.

I suppose that actually brings us to the heart of this sutta study....

What good are all these descriptions of "ultimate persons", if not as a guide or an ideal to strive towards? Or is it just for us to be reverent?

Metta,
Retro. :)
both as both are practical. contemplating the qualities of the Buddha is also a form of meditation.

http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/budhsati.html
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by dhamma_spoon » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:56 am

jcsuperstar wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tep,

....

What good are all these descriptions of "ultimate persons", if not as a guide or an ideal to strive towards? Or is it just for us to be reverent?

Metta,
Retro. :)
both as both are practical. contemplating the qualities of the Buddha is also a form of meditation.

http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/budhsati.html
For me contemplation of Buddha is a component of the "training" towards the ultimate goal. :stirthepot:

Truly,

Tep
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A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by dhamma_spoon » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:19 pm

dhamma_spoon wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tep,

What good are all these descriptions of "ultimate persons", if not as a guide or an ideal to strive towards? Or is it just for us to be reverent?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Definitely, we -- earnest, purposeful Buddhists -- strive towards becoming ultimate persons, sooner (in this life) or later !

Thank you for taking the time. :smile:


Tep
----
On the other hand, I am not clear how you might use the descriptions or qualities of an ultimate person (arahant) as a guide.

Tep
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A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by jcsuperstar » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:32 pm

emulation perhaps?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by dhamma_spoon » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:57 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:emulation perhaps?
Emulation is faking, isn't it?
Like an actor playing as Jesus in a documentary film? :rolleye:

Tep
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A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by jcsuperstar » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:23 pm

no that would be imitation
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:38 pm

dhamma_spoon wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:emulation perhaps?
Emulation is faking, isn't it?
Like an actor playing as Jesus in a documentary film? :rolleye:

Tep
-----
Fake it till you make it.


:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by dhamma_spoon » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:55 pm

bodom wrote:
dhamma_spoon wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:emulation perhaps?
Emulation is faking, isn't it?
Like an actor playing as Jesus in a documentary film? :rolleye:

Tep
-----
Fake it till you make it.


:anjali:
Dear Boredom, -

Faking is on the opposite side of truth/reality. Failure to see the truth from the very beginning never takes you back to reality.
How would you fake the first jhana, for example? :juggling:

Tep
-----
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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bodom
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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:14 pm

Its a 12 step slogan. And sorry for being so boring lol.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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dhamma_spoon
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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by dhamma_spoon » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:25 pm

bodom wrote:Its a 12 step slogan. And sorry for being so boring lol.

:anjali:
Well, boring means making a hole -- so I hope that hole leads us somewhere! :stirthepot:
Let's start with Step 1, please. How does the slogan work?

Tep
----
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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bodom
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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:28 pm

Well step 1 my name is BODOM not boredom or boring.

Step 2 read this short article:

Fake it till you make it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_it_till_you_make_it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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dhamma_spoon
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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by dhamma_spoon » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:21 pm

bodom wrote:Well step 1 my name is BODOM not boredom or boring.

Step 2 read this short article:

Fake it till you make it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_it_till_you_make_it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Okay, okay, bodom. You don't like my joke, so I will not call you Boredom again. :weep:
The article "Fake it .." is for uninstructed puthujjanas (worldlings) who enjoy delusion and pretending.
The article's idea is "to go through the routines of life as if one were enjoying them, despite the fact that initially it feels forced, and continue doing this until the happiness becomes real".
What they think is a "real happiness" is deluded because its origin is faked -- they do not have truths to begin with.
Only "seeing and knowing things the way they really are" leads to real happiness, according to our Teacher -- the Buddha.

Tep
-----
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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Re: Snp 4.10 Purabheda Sutta

Post by bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:02 pm

Im not sure why you seem to think I am endorsing this type of practice over the practice as taught by the Buddha. :shrug:
I made a generalised statement. It was not meant to be the final word on anything. I was going off of JC's post and posted something I thought was relevant to the direction the thread was taking. You asked for info regarding the phrase so I posted a link. I didn't write it nor do I adhere to it.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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