About not kill any living being

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Terasi
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by Terasi »

Hi, I am very new to Buddhism (I mean the real one!). Forgive me for being so shallow, but I am still struggling with even the most basic ones.

I read that buying meat is ok, but being a butcher is not a right livelihood. It's said that because we eat meat without intention to kill the cow (I am actually still struggling with this one too.... ), so it doesn't bring kamma (or maybe just a bit? Read some views, and got a bit confused here).

If intention is what brings kamma, how about those bloody dictators. If the dictator Mr. H ordered the execution of 1000 people, but then the organisation he controlled killed 6000000 more people, would Mr. H be bloody for those 6000000 people he indirectly killed? Or he'll just have to take responsibility for his personal LDM that led him to kill the 1000 people and to set up a bloody organisation?
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kc2dpt
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by kc2dpt »

Terasi wrote:I read that buying meat is ok, but being a butcher is not a right livelihood.
I think we need to be more specific than "ok". Buying meat is not the same as killing a cow. If one vows to abstain from killing and one buys meat then one doesn't not by doing so break that vow.
It's said that because we eat meat without intention to kill the cow, so it doesn't bring kamma
Again, it is necessary to be specific. It doesn't not bring the kamma of killing. Buying meat is an intentional act and therefore produces some sort of kamma, just as does any intentional act. Even tying your shoe produces kamma.
If intention is what brings kamma, how about those bloody dictators. If the dictator Mr. H ordered the execution of 1000 people, but then the organisation he controlled killed 6000000 more people, would Mr. H be bloody for those 6000000 people he indirectly killed?
He would not incur the kamma of killing those 6000000. It seems to me likely he would incur some other negative kamma though.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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cooran
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by cooran »

Hello Terasi,

This might be a good start:

Questions on Kamma ~ Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha057.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Terasi
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by Terasi »

Thank you Peter and Cooran. I looked into the link. I must have been lazy and ignorant in my past life cos I am quite dull now, but I won't be greedy trying to grasp everything at once. Still got a long way to go. :popcorn:
It's too far fetched for a beginner to think about Mr.H's kamma fruits while I can't even handle mine. I did find some practical points I think I can attempt now:
When a willed action is performed it leaves a track in the mind, an imprint which can mark the beginning of a new mental tendency. It has a tendency to repeat itself, to reproduce itself, somewhat like a protozon, like an amoeba. As these actions multiply, they form our character. Our personality is nothing but a sum of all our willed actions, a cross-section of all our accumulated kamma.
As we change our habits gradually, we change our character, and as we change our character we change our total being, our whole world. That is why the Buddha emphasizes, so strongly the need to be mindful of every action, of every choice. For every choice of ours has a tremendous potential for the future.
First of all, not all Kamma has to ripen as a matter of necessity
One kamma can even be destroyed by another kamma. So it is important to understand that our present way of life, our attitudes and conduct, can influence the way our past kammas mature.
Now those are gems! It gives positive feeling and encouragement for me (us?) to attempt to be a better person by being mindful of every little thing, being aware that even tying shoelaces brings kamma.
:thanks:
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kc2dpt
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by kc2dpt »

I'm glad you are feeling encouraged. :)
Remember too that there is good karma as well as bad.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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_Daniel_
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by _Daniel_ »

proximityinfotech3 wrote:I think buddhanet.net has more material that cover the subject of karma. It can explain better than I. Or you can use the search function on this forum, I am sure we have a thread on this subject. As a Buddhist, I would ask why do you have a pistol in the first place?

_____________________________________________________________

Ben 10 Games
I could have a pistol, because I could be a policeman.
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phil
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by phil »

I recommend a lidded cardboard box from some small-sized appliance for mosquitos, makes a much more effective catcher than a glass jar. Works for roaches too.
It's tough. There is often an instinctive slap in the direction of a mosquito that whines in your ear when you can't sleep on a hot summer night, and there is a moment of dosa behind that slap that makes it intentional. I've killed several in that way over the last few years, a reminder of how much attachment there is to sound sleep etc.

It could be that if you do kill, it's good to come here and report it to this virtual sangha. THere is a very good Sutta in Majjhima Nikaya in which the Buddha talks to his son Rahula and tells him to 'fess up to his bad deeds as a way of strengthening the conditions for abstaining from them in the future. So I have made the above confession...

Metta,

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
Terasi
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by Terasi »

Confession ya... I've killed a mosquito a few days ago. It was doing nothing, just standing on my arm, without thinking my other arm just whooosh.. snap! I read somewhere that our "automatic" reaction is not really automatic, it's a conditioned learning since we were small, we were told by our loving moms and nannies that mosquito is bad, then we practiced snapping them.. practice makes perfect, now it seems automatic.

But can I think of that reaction as the lack of mindfulness that I succumbed to "habit"? Or was it something else in play?
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kc2dpt
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by kc2dpt »

Terasi wrote:But can I think of that reaction as the lack of mindfulness that I succumbed to "habit"? Or was it something else in play?
It is due to our habits that we wander in samsara.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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phil
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by phil »

Terasi wrote:Confession ya... I've killed a mosquito a few days ago. It was doing nothing, just standing on my arm, without thinking my other arm just whooosh.. snap! I read somewhere that our "automatic" reaction is not really automatic, it's a conditioned learning since we were small, we were told by our loving moms and nannies that mosquito is bad, then we practiced snapping them.. practice makes perfect, now it seems automatic.

But can I think of that reaction as the lack of mindfulness that I succumbed to "habit"? Or was it something else in play?



Interesting...I would guess that there is something intrinsically aversion-causing in the vipaka that is the body or hearing sense that precedes our perception of a mosquito...and then another kind of aversion conditioned in the way you say above after the "mosquito" story plays out in a flash. It all happens so quickly. With a cockroach there is time to look at it and hear all the stories of how disgusting it is supposed to be. I'm glad to say that I have definitely moved beyond killing cockroaches....ah, but easy to say when I see one or two a month.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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cooran
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by cooran »

Hello Phil,
I'm glad to say that I have definitely moved beyond killing cockroaches....ah, but easy to say when I see one or two a month.
Two a month??????????????

"There are 428 species of cockroach in Australia and a number of introduced species have become pests. The two most significant pest cockroaches are the German cockroach and the American cockroach.
Cockroaches live and feed in unhygienic places such as sewers and drains, or feed on garbage that may be contaminated. These insects are cold-blooded and thrive in warm, humid conditions. This is why buildings in the northern parts of Australia are particularly prone to infestations. However cockroaches will make their home wherever they find food, moisture and shelter. The German cockroach is the most common cockroach found in houses and apartments in Australia. Their small size means that human occupants (many of whom do not recognise early nymphal stages as being cockroaches), initially tolerate them. Their rapid reproduction rate enables a few individuals to become a pest problem over one season. From one original female German cockroach, there could be potentially more than 100,000 cockroaches in a home by the end of one year!"

http://www.skippypestcontrol.com.au/pest-control.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AUSTRALIA DAY COCKROACH RACING
http://travel.ninemsn.com.au/holidaytyp ... ach-racing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The German cockroaches are the biggest pest because they live inside houses. The other bigger cockroaches live in the garden and under leaf litter and only come in by accident. I don't kill pests, but keep all food in insect-proof containers, clean up spills and crumbs immediately, wash and dry dishes asap. I use various non-harming (to cockroaches) repellents. Any of the little fellas I see wandering about, I catch in a disk box or something similar and take outside.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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cooran
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

For those who live in warm countries and would like to meditate outdoors - apart from insect repellents (nonharming), there are also one man tents.

At Bodhgaya in March (which appears to be the time of the Great Mosquito Gathering) there were scores of people (ordained and lay) using one man meditation tents made of mosquito netting.

Can't find the exact ones on the net, maybe someone else will have better luck?

No need to kill any living being.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Michael_S
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by Michael_S »

I always capture and release insects from the house.
But.......
Let us suppose one is infected with tapeworms.
The medical treatment is to kill them with an anthelmintic drug.
Does kamma permit the killing of them in order to ensure one's own survival?
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bodom
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by bodom »

Michael_S wrote:I always capture and release insects from the house.
But.......
Let us suppose one is infected with tapeworms.
The medical treatment is to kill them with an anthelmintic drug.
Does kamma permit the killing of them in order to ensure one's own survival?
There is no bargaining with kamma. If you kill the tapeworms you reap the results.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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phil
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Re: About not kill any living being

Post by phil »

Also interesting to consider how the householder's duty to take care of loved ones (as pointed to in the Mangala sutta, for example) come into play in this. If your house is infested with ticks, for example, as happens here in Japan in tatami mat floors during the rainy season, there is no way to collect them and take them outside. Do you allow your children (for example) to be covered with bites, or take action? Do you stand back and let your spouse take the bad kamma instead of you? On a couple of occasions I have let a mosquito live in my room, knowing that my wife would kill it instead of me. That spared me the kamma, but certainly didn't fulfill the duties I have towards her. On a couple of occasions I have killed a mosquito for her. (Now I have a good box for trapping mosquitoes, didn't in the past.)
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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