A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
6 posts • Page 1 of 1
In regard to the first part of you post, there is not much I can say without knowing exactly what was said. As for the second part, I think that the sutta in question may be the Pabhassara Sutta. As Thanissaro Bhikkhu mentions in his note to this sutta, the statement, "Luminous ... is the mind" has engendered a great deal of controversy over the centuries and there has been a fair amount of debate over what means.bazzaman wrote:Another of these monks made reference to a sutta in which the Buddha spoke of this original purity of mind... but unfortunatley I cannot find that Dhamma talk to trace the reference. I am not really interested in trying to work it all out in a doctrinaire sense. But I would like to find scriptural references to this teaching so that I could contemplate it. Does anyone know if there are any such references in the Pali Canon?
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements."
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements."
"A first beginning of ignorance cannot be conceived, (of which it can be said), 'Before that, there was no ignorance and it came to be after that.' Though this is so, monks, yet a specific condition of ignorance can be conceived. Ignorance, too, has its nutriment, I declare; and it is not without a nutriment. And what is the nutriment of ignorance? 'The five hindrances,' should be the answer.
"A first beginning of the craving of existence cannot be conceived, (of which it can be said), 'Before that, there was no craving for existence and it came to be after that.' Though this is so, monks, yet a specific condition for craving for existence can be conceived. Craving for existence, too, has its nutriment, I declare; and it is not without a nutriment. And what is the nutriment of craving for existence? 'Ignorance,' should be the answer. But ignorance, too, has its nutriment; it is not without a nutriment. And what is the nutriment of ignorance? 'The five hindrances,' should be the answer.
AN X 61
"Monks, there are these seven underlying tendencies. Which seven?
"(1) The underlying tendency of sensual passion.
"(2) The underlying tendency of resistance.
"(3) The underlying tendency of views.
"(4) The underlying tendency of uncertainty.
"(5) The underlying tendency of conceit.
"(6) The underlying tendency of passion for becoming.
"(7) The underlying tendency of ignorance.
"These are the seven underlying tendencies."
The question of what is "inherent" or "natural" or "original" is an interesting one."In the case of pleasant feelings, O monks, the underlying tendency to lust should be given up; in the case of painful feelings, the underlying tendency to resistance (aversion) should be given up; in the case of neither-painful-nor-pleasant feelings, the underlying tendency to ignorance should be given up.
"If a monk has given up the tendency to lust in regard to pleasant feeling, the tendency to resistance in regard to painful feelings and the tendency to ignorance in regard to neither-painful-nor-pleasant feelings, then he is called one who is free of (unwholesome) tendencies, one who has the right outlook. He has cut off craving, severed the fetters (to future becoming) and through the full penetration of conceit, he has made an end of suffering."
If one feels joy, but knows not feeling's nature,
bent towards greed, he will not find deliverance.
If one feels pain, but knows not feeling's nature,
bent toward hate, he will not find deliverance.
And even neutral feeling which as peaceful
the Lord of Wisdom has proclaimed,
if, in attachment, he should cling to it,
he will not be free from the round of ill.
And having done so, in this very life
will be free from cankers, free from taints.
Mature in knowledge, firm in Dhamma's ways,
when once his life-span ends, his body breaks,
all measure and concept he has transcended.
The mind is the room things happen in
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Well, if our mind is inherently pure, we wouldn't need to practice the eightfold path. However, since most of us experience dukkhas and the poisons as a result of attachment, there is nothing inherently pure about our mind. Having said that, neither are our minds inherently impure if not, attaining liberation would have be fruitless................bazzaman wrote: All three made reference to the (I'm paraphrasing here due to the aforementioned stupidity) "inherent" or "natural" or "original" state of the mind as being pure and radiant. I had been going on the assumption that, from a Theravada point of view, there was no "inherent" or "original" nature to the mind.