Sorry, but this example of Bahiya only indicates that Bahiya became became an arahant, and that the buddha considered him a bhikkhu. It does in no way prove that "only a bhikkhu can become an arhat" at all, unless we take the definition that "true bhikkhu = arahant", in which case it is a mere tautology.AryaSravaka wrote:Astus wrote:There is an interesting essay by Piya Tan: Layman Saints. Basically it shows how the view that an arahant must be a monk or die shortly is not necessarily true. I'd like to hear some educated opinions about it.
Lay person can be an Anagami /Non returner
Only a bhikku can become an arhat. Source - directly from tipitaka
Layman Arahant
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Re: Layman Arahant
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Re: Layman Arahant
Actually Bahiya became an Arahant while still a layperson, while on his way to seek out a bowl, robe, and requisites for ordination, just after leaving the Buddha. Unfortunately he was killed by a cow before he got a chance to ordain.AryaSravaka wrote:
Lay person can be an Anagami /Non returner
Only a bhikku can become an arhat.
Kevin
Re: Layman Arahant
I am currently reading The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma by Red Pine and came across the following...
As a practicing householder this line is very inspirational to me and my practice.
Bodhidharma was cool.
"People who see that their mind is the Buddha don’t need to shave their head. Laymen are Buddhas too. Unless they see their nature, people who shave their heads are simply fanatics."
As a practicing householder this line is very inspirational to me and my practice.
Bodhidharma was cool.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Layman Arahant
A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.mind is the Buddha
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.Laymen are Buddhas
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!Unless they see their nature
As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice.
Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)
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Re: Layman Arahant
No public smooching, please.Anicca wrote:
Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Layman Arahant
Anicca wrote:A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.mind is the Buddha
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.Laymen are Buddhas
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!Unless they see their nature
As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice.
Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)
Brilliant...
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Re: Layman Arahant
Oh so ya wanna play hard ball do ya?Anicca wrote:A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.mind is the Buddha
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.Laymen are Buddhas
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!Unless they see their nature
As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice.
Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)
Well I guess I will have to return the book and never read Bodhidharma again. Thanks alot Anicca!
I knew I would probably take some slack for that but hey what the heck.
Last edited by bodom on Sun May 23, 2010 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Layman Arahant
This sutta is interesting on this topic. Here Buddha says that there are numerous bhukkhu arahants, numerous bhikkhuni arahants, and then - numerous layman anagamis (and so on). No mention about layman arahants..
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ma ... tta-e1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ma ... tta-e1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Layman Arahant
So Bodom, this Red Pine person, is he by any chance related to Pinicchio ?
Re: Layman Arahant
Haha very funny Peter lol. His real name is Bill Porter. Red Pine is his pen name. He is actually an acclaimed translator and interpreter of Chinesese Buddhist texts.PeterB wrote:So Bodom, this Red Pine person, is he by any chance related to Pinicchio ?
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Layman Arahant
Has he formed a splinter group ?
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Re: Layman Arahant
My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????
Re: Layman Arahant
Can it be possible that one becomes a bhikkhu in the mind (ie. lives like a bhikkhu) and not that one has to go through the ordination ceremony? I mean...isn't the physical ceremony itself a FORM?
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~
Re: Layman Arahant
If in your mind you see her as an Arahant - in your mind, see her wearing the robes!fabianfred wrote:My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????
Re: Layman Arahant
If a layperson were to become an arahant, then how would they live their daily life? They would have no desire to do anything. I imagine all they would do is teach dhamma, why would they not ordain? It seems like it would be the most effective use of the rest of their time.