Layman Arahant

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Paññāsikhara
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by Paññāsikhara » Sun May 23, 2010 2:21 pm

AryaSravaka wrote:
Astus wrote:There is an interesting essay by Piya Tan: Layman Saints. Basically it shows how the view that an arahant must be a monk or die shortly is not necessarily true. I'd like to hear some educated opinions about it.

Lay person can be an Anagami /Non returner
Only a bhikku can become an arhat. Source - directly from tipitaka
Sorry, but this example of Bahiya only indicates that Bahiya became became an arahant, and that the buddha considered him a bhikkhu. It does in no way prove that "only a bhikkhu can become an arhat" at all, unless we take the definition that "true bhikkhu = arahant", in which case it is a mere tautology.
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Virgo
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by Virgo » Sun May 23, 2010 2:36 pm

AryaSravaka wrote:

Lay person can be an Anagami /Non returner
Only a bhikku can become an arhat.
Actually Bahiya became an Arahant while still a layperson, while on his way to seek out a bowl, robe, and requisites for ordination, just after leaving the Buddha. Unfortunately he was killed by a cow before he got a chance to ordain.

Kevin

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bodom
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by bodom » Sun May 23, 2010 4:20 pm

I am currently reading The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma by Red Pine and came across the following...
"People who see that their mind is the Buddha don’t need to shave their head. Laymen are Buddhas too. Unless they see their nature, people who shave their heads are simply fanatics."


As a practicing householder this line is very inspirational to me and my practice.

Bodhidharma was cool. :sage:

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

Anicca
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by Anicca » Sun May 23, 2010 4:42 pm

mind is the Buddha
A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.
Laymen are Buddhas
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.
Unless they see their nature
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!

As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice. :tongue:

Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 4:49 pm

Anicca wrote:

Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)
No public smooching, please.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Sanghamitta
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by Sanghamitta » Sun May 23, 2010 5:00 pm

Anicca wrote:
mind is the Buddha
A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.
Laymen are Buddhas
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.
Unless they see their nature
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!

As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice. :tongue:

Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)

Brilliant... :clap:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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bodom
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by bodom » Sun May 23, 2010 5:41 pm

Anicca wrote:
mind is the Buddha
A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.
Laymen are Buddhas
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.
Unless they see their nature
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!

As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice. :tongue:

Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)
Oh so ya wanna play hard ball do ya? :smile:

Well I guess I will have to return the book and never read Bodhidharma again. Thanks alot Anicca! :tongue:

I knew I would probably take some slack for that but hey what the heck.

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Sun May 23, 2010 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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Zom
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by Zom » Sun May 23, 2010 6:07 pm

This sutta is interesting on this topic. Here Buddha says that there are numerous bhukkhu arahants, numerous bhikkhuni arahants, and then - numerous layman anagamis (and so on). No mention about layman arahants.. :reading:

http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ma ... tta-e1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PeterB
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by PeterB » Mon May 24, 2010 2:03 pm

So Bodom, this Red Pine person, is he by any chance related to Pinicchio ?

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bodom
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by bodom » Mon May 24, 2010 2:38 pm

PeterB wrote:So Bodom, this Red Pine person, is he by any chance related to Pinicchio ?
Haha very funny Peter lol. His real name is Bill Porter. Red Pine is his pen name. He is actually an acclaimed translator and interpreter of Chinesese Buddhist texts.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

PeterB
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by PeterB » Mon May 24, 2010 3:15 pm

Has he formed a splinter group ? :smile:

fabianfred
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by fabianfred » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:15 am

My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????

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salmon
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by salmon » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:35 am

Can it be possible that one becomes a bhikkhu in the mind (ie. lives like a bhikkhu) and not that one has to go through the ordination ceremony? I mean...isn't the physical ceremony itself a FORM?
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

Anicca
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by Anicca » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:10 am

fabianfred wrote:My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????
If in your mind you see her as an Arahant - in your mind, see her wearing the robes! :tongue:

mud
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Re: Layman Arahant

Post by mud » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:08 am

If a layperson were to become an arahant, then how would they live their daily life? They would have no desire to do anything. I imagine all they would do is teach dhamma, why would they not ordain? It seems like it would be the most effective use of the rest of their time.

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