Wat Dhammakaya

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SeerObserver
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by SeerObserver » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:42 am

jcsuperstar wrote:his brother ordained under lp paknam so he(my friend) learned the style rather young but basicly the meditation is similar, but the dhammakaya version is a sort of abridgement of the lp paknam version, there may be more to it, he asked me why the dhammakaya would simplify it, i had no idea. he doesnt seem to like dhammakaya though. maybe lp paknam taught a simplified version later? i wouldnt even know who to ask about this
This is an interesting turn. How long was your friend's brother ordained, and did your friend learn directly from the Wat or from his brother?

Beyond accounts like what you have provided, there is another person who also says that Dhammakaya's meditation technique is different from that taught and practiced by LP Sodh. This person even went so far as to say there was a conspiracy to cover this up and what not. That is really outlandish. Wat Paknam would not acquiesce to claims made by the Dhammakaya movement if they were not truly in accord with their great late abbot. As a matter of fact, Wat Paknam is on "good terms" with the Dhammakaya movement. As a matter of fact the preceptor of Phrarajbhavanavisudh, the abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya, is the current abbot of Wat Paknam.

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by jcsuperstar » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:56 am

i dont know much about the brother
i'll ask next time i see him..
this is all rather interesting
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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GrahamR
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by GrahamR » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:01 am

SeerObserver wrote:

Not sure what this last point means, Graham. It costs 5 pounds to have a 45 minute audience with a monk?
Yes indeed, if you check out their web site - 'Monk and me' it's £5 (our UK currency is pounds sterling) for a chat! :toilet:

I didn't want criticise the Wat publically in the forum, but I have given more information to people who have approached me directly.
With metta :bow:
Graham

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gavesako
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by gavesako » Sun May 09, 2010 7:41 pm

PM urged to halt grand temple plan
By The Nation
Published on May 10, 2010

Activists and NGOs yesterday submitted an open letter to the prime minister asking him to put on hold a proposal by the Dhamamakaya Temple to offer a Bt1-billion fund to the Office of Basic Education Commission (OBEC) to train more than 10 million students and 70,000 officials over a three-year period.

The letter, submitted by noted thinker Sulak Sivarak, called for an abrupt halt to this proposal and an immediate investigation, while suspending all OBEC officials involved.

The temple has offered scholarships to provide training on Bud-dhism, meditation and morality lessons to 10 million high school students in all 30,000 schools across the country, along with around 700,000 teachers, community leaders and politicians over a three-year period starting later this year.

The 43 activists and NGO members are questioning, besides other things, the training project costs, which are not specified, and the content of Buddhism teachings by the temple, as to whether they are accurate enough and in line with mainstream Buddhist doctrines.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Pannapetar » Mon May 10, 2010 4:38 am

I only know about Wat Dhammakaya from hearsay, i.e. from what other people told me about it, and from their brochures, which are quite abundant here. To me it looks like the closest you can get to "spiritual materialism", as they appear to measure merit primarily in donations and they even have a table of devata levels that are open to you in the afterlife according to the financial contributions you made. They attract a lot of the Bangkok business elite and rich Thai-Chinese merchants. I think Ven. Gavesako's brief portrayal in post no. 4 is quite accurate.

Cheers, Thomas

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by appicchato » Mon May 10, 2010 5:32 am

...in post no. 4...
Speaking of which...perhaps posts could be numbered for easy(er) reference...say, near the 'report' icon, or ?...just a thought... :smile:

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 10, 2010 5:44 am

Greetings bhante,

At the top of each post, the post heading actually has the URL sitting behind it.

To link to earlier posts, people can right-click, copy this URL, and put it in their posts. It's a bit more reliable than post numbering which would become disjointed if posts are deleted (either by the user or a moderator).

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by tiltbillings » Mon May 10, 2010 5:51 am

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 826#p64826" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I did not know that, but you need to left click on "Re: Wat Dhammakaya" then right click on url which shows up in the url space on the top of the page in the url box then right click and copy and paste it into the msg body.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by appicchato » Mon May 10, 2010 5:54 am

I did not know that...
Ditto...thank you both...

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GrahamR
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Wat Dhammakaya

Post by GrahamR » Sun May 16, 2010 8:03 am

Thomas,

I didn't want to publicly criticism something other people hold as sacred, however I will add more now having been approached by several people off list: my experience of it was the commercial face of Buddhism, all the dhamma books were for sale for example! I don't understand much Thai, or what was going on, but my wife described the monks as businessmen in robes. I could see that they seem to have taken concepts of angels and hell from Christianity, you pay to them and become an angel or go to hell.

There is the Dhammakaya channel available on satellite, we get in the Britain, I wouldn't recommend that either!

Graham


Pannapetar wrote:I only know about Wat Dhammakaya from hearsay, i.e. from what other people told me about it, and from their brochures, which are quite abundant here. To me it looks like the closest you can get to "spiritual materialism", as they appear to measure merit primarily in donations and they even have a table of devata levels that are open to you in the afterlife according to the financial contributions you made. They attract a lot of the Bangkok business elite and rich Thai-Chinese merchants. I think Ven. Gavesako's brief portrayal in post no. 4 is quite accurate.

Cheers, Thomas
With metta :bow:
Graham

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Pannapetar » Sun May 16, 2010 9:26 am

GrahamR wrote:I didn't want to publicly criticism something other people hold as sacred...
It might be one of those cases, where it is more important to be honest than to be respectful. :anjali:

Cheers, Thomas

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GrahamR
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Wat Dhammakaya

Post by GrahamR » Sat May 22, 2010 5:45 am

Thomas,

Yes I agree, perhaps we should warn people, at the risk of offending others, which is why I have now written more.

I would add that there have been various scandals about the Wat in Thailand too, not all of which we substantiated.

It's certainly not a temple we ever intend to visit again.

Graham


Pannapetar wrote:
GrahamR wrote:I didn't want to publicly criticism something other people hold as sacred...
It might be one of those cases, where it is more important to be honest than to be respectful. :anjali:

Cheers, Thomas
With metta :bow:
Graham

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Zom
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Zom » Sat May 22, 2010 9:56 am

Ajahn Jayasaro said that Dhammakaya is a very dangerous sect :stirthepot:

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GrahamR
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Wat Dhammakaya

Post by GrahamR » Sat May 22, 2010 2:09 pm

Hi

I would agree, it's certainly not regular Buddhist as I know it, and has many similarities to Christian sects: offers of heaven coupled with threats of hell, a strong emphasis on financial matters etc.

Graham
Zom wrote:Ajahn Jayasaro said that Dhammakaya is a very dangerous sect :stirthepot:
With metta :bow:
Graham

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Halemalu
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Halemalu » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:57 am

FYI: I have been to the Dhammakaya Temple in Bangkok. My fiancee is a member. I have attended their meditation retreats. I have attended many of their ceremonies. I have toured the facilities extensively. I have had monks in my home here in Hawaii. I even have met with both the Vice Abbot and the Abbot. We are also currently looking to establish our retreat center here in Hawaii as a branch of the Middle Way Retreats under the Dhammakaya Foundation.

There is much discussion if the organization can be considered truely Buddhists. Let me assure you that it is. The inner direction is purely Buddhist. The problem is that because of it's size it has to handle things a bit differently than most Buddhists Temples.

With up to 100,000 attending a normal Sunday meditation service and more than 300,000 attending special holidays, things need to be done a bit differently. Modern technology needs to be used like big screen TVs and massive sound systems just to cover the audiances. The structures are simply designed but are massive as to accommodate so many people. There seems to be huge amounts of money donated, but that is to be expected with so many people attending.

The Temple started off modestly many years ago but the message and technique they offer to the public is so accessable and beneficial the crowds just grew larger and larger. With larger crowds and greater donations they were obligated to build structures that could accomodate all those people and develope alternate ways to give the people what they desired.

Because of all of this, it does look like on the surface to be just a money obsessed cult. But believe me it is not. It has become so popular because they emphasize the importance of meditation to gain merit and have encouraged laypeople to learn and share in the benefits of meditation. Unlike other Theravaden groups that mostly promote a monastic life, scripture and alms giving, the Dhammakaya Temple has put a greater importance on meditation for not only the Monks but also the laypeople. The laypeople have embraced this concept and that is why we see such hugh numbers attending the Dhammakaya Temple.

In modern times with so many followers different techniques are required to accommodate and satisfy the spiritual hunger of all those individuals. It is these "new" techniques that are frowned upon and misunderstood by so many traditionalists. Believe me though, the message is still the same. The Dhammakaya foundation has just wraped it in a new package!

If you have any specific questions just let me know and I will be glad to answer them the best I can.

Rejoice in our merits!

Halemalu - The Place of Peace
Halemalu
The Place of Peace

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