What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by Phra Chuntawongso »

The Buddha taught lay people the 4 noble truths.
He gave 5 precepts to live by.
Some teachings of course do differ.
When being mindful,we are mindful of the present moment and are taught not to think of the future,however, one teaching the Buddha gave to a householder was how to deal with money.
How much should be given away,how much to spend on food etc and how much to put away for the future.
So the teachings are slightly different for lay people and monastics.
The spiritual truths are not different.
Life is suffering,the cause...... :buddha2:
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
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fig tree
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by fig tree »

mikenz66 wrote: As I recall, there is a Sutta, which I thought was in the MN, where a lay follower tells someone from another sect (a Niganta etc) that he does not have to take some meditative attainment on faith because he has achieved it. Perhaps someone else can recall it.
In the Nigantha Sutta (SN 41.8, S iv 298) Citta the householder bests Nigantha Nataputta himself, who asks Citta about jhana lacking applied and sustained thought (vitakka and vicara), whether he believes the Buddha about it. When Citta says no, Nataputta praises him for his good sense, but then Citta points out that he knows that there is such a jhana because he can generate it himself, and thus doesn't merely believe in it.

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/bud ... ples14.htm.

Fig Tree
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by mikenz66 »

Thanks fig tree!

That's the sutta but I misremembered which Nikaya it was in...

Mike
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by Paññāsikhara »

chiangmaigreg wrote:The Buddha taught lay people the 4 noble truths.
Although I'd definitely agree that the Buddha taught the ariya-saccani to some lay people, I would question whether or not this was standard, or even common, occurrence.

Often there is a distinction made between the "gradual" discourse on giving, morality and rebirth in higher states; compared to the discourse on the four truths. It appears that for the vast majority of lay people, they probably heard the gradual discourse.

We may also reflect on the basic meaning of "ariya saccani" itself, which is understood as "truths for holy people". When it comes down to it, many people are unwilling to even acknowledge these as "truths" as such. Particularly when they are told that certain elements of their daily lifestyles are basically the cause of their continued rebirth in samsaric existence. A certain amount of denial can quickly creep in. As one develops insight, gradual acceptance of these truths deepens.

So, maybe some lay people heard teachings on the four ariya saccani, but I'd warrant that these were the exceptional cases, not the norm.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by Lazy_eye »

Hi,

Wouldn't understanding of the four noble truths be a prerequisite for stream entry? One would need to know what the Buddha's teachings were in order to confirm their accuracy, right?

Namaste,

LE
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jcsuperstar
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by jcsuperstar »

i found this book here to be a great tome on the subject
http://www.amazon.com/Buddhas-Teachings ... 828&sr=8-1
For those of us unable to devote hours to meditation and study, the long journey to enlightenment can be difficult to integrate with our daily lives. We may have access to Buddhist teachings, but specific guidance on how to conduct ourselves in the work-a-day world may be missing. This remarkable guide fills that gap, and directs "laypeople" toward a fuller, more spiritual life, by suggesting ways to bring skillful, spiritual practice to everyday responsibilities and concerns. From money to romantic relationships, office conflict-management to wise parenting practices, this book helps readers negotiate both the road to the Buddha's wisdom and the many daily distractions that threaten to test one's resolve along the way.
i was gonna try to do a book about it myself using the suttas as guides (and with many more direct quotes) and from a layman's POV as opposed to a monastic but its turned out to be a lot of work. maybe i'll pick it up again, who knows.
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by Freawaru »

Hi Mike,
mikenz66 wrote: MN 143 Anathapindikovada Sutta: Instructions to Anathapindika
Ven. Sariputta offers a deep teaching on non-clinging to the ailing lay-follower Anathapindika.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[Sariputta:]
...
"Then, householder, you should train yourself in this way: 'I won't cling to what is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect; my consciousness will not be dependent on that.' That's how you should train yourself."

When this was said, Anathapindika the householder wept and shed tears. Ven. Ananda said to him, "Are you sinking, householder? Are you foundering?"

"No, venerable sir. I'm not sinking, nor am I foundering. It's just that for a long time I have attended to the Teacher, and to the monks who inspire my heart, but never before have I heard a talk on the Dhamma like this."

[Sariputta:] '"This sort of talk on the Dhamma, householder, is not given to lay people clad in white. This sort of talk on the Dhamma is given to those gone forth."

"In that case, Ven. Sariputta, please let this sort of talk on the Dhamma be given to lay people clad in white. There are clansmen with little dust in their eyes who are wasting away through not hearing [this] Dhamma. There will be those who will understand it."
...
Mike
Don't know whether this is relevant here but the "illness" of Anathapindika sounds dangerously similar to Kundalini problems. The recommended cure is detachment - as prescribed by Ven. Ananda. It would, btw, imply that Anathapindika was well versed in concentration practice - which wouldn't be surprising considering his rebirth in the deva realm.
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Lazy Eye,
Lazy_eye wrote:Wouldn't understanding of the four noble truths be a prerequisite for stream entry? One would need to know what the Buddha's teachings were in order to confirm their accuracy, right?
Yes, but how much understanding?

Does one need to know that they "seem to make sense" or does it involve knowledge that all formations are dukkha, even those that are pleasant or heavenly. To that end, you might be interested in this earlier discussion...

Sabbe sankhara dukkha - how to observe this Dhamma?
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: What did the Buddha teach the Lay people?

Post by bodom »

Lazy_eye wrote:Hi,

Wouldn't understanding of the four noble truths be a prerequisite for stream entry? One would need to know what the Buddha's teachings were in order to confirm their accuracy, right?

Namaste,

LE
Association with people of integrity is a factor for stream-entry. Listening to the true Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry. Appropriate attention is a factor for stream-entry. Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry.— SN 55.5

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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