Rasmussen/Snyder "Practicing the Jhanas"

[bodom]

The Jhānas and the Lay Disciple According to the Pāli SuttasVen. Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.viet.net/~anson/ebud/ebdha267.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[meindzai]

What would you say to a monk still in the robe that advised against practising the Jhanas at all ? I know several.

Teachers have different ideas about practice, because they generally teach based on what worked for them and what they think is best for their students. If you have a teacher, and if you've established a relationship with them and put faith in them, then I'd follow whatever their instruction is, assuming there is a "method to their madness."

But to answer your question, I'd say "What about 'right concentration'?" I'd simply want to know their opinion.

Bhante Gunaratana is an example of a respected Bhikkhu who teaches techniques for Jhanic concentration, and who believes it is possible for lay followers. Not without a lot of time and effort of course. Time not only in terms of X hours per day, but serious "time away" from household life i.e. on retreat.

Those interested, search for "jhana" on this page: http://www.bhavanasociety.org/list/category/MP3s/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to find Bhante G's talks on the subject.

-M

[bodom]

There is evidence in the Citta Samyutta in Samyutta Nikaya where Citta the householder tells Nigantha Nathaputta that he has attained all four jhanas.

Well, venerable sir, to whatever extent I wish, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, I enter and dwell in the first jhaana, which is accompanied by thought and examination, with rapture and happiness born of seclusion. [299] Then, to whatever extent I wish, with the subsiding of thought and examination, I enter and dwell in the second jhaana¦.Then, to whatever extent I wish, with the fading away as well of rapture... I enter and dwell in the third jhaana¦. Then, to whatever extent I wish, with the abandoning of pleasure and pain... I enter and dwell in the fourth jhaana." BB transl. SN 41.8

[Chula]

The Jhānas and the Lay Disciple According to the Pāli SuttasVen. Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.viet.net/~anson/ebud/ebdha267.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice article - seems to cover everything.

[Zom]

A few months of consistent practice, study and some outside pushes in the right direction can bring very good results.

Few months... well, don't know. I tried one month of intensive meditation practice in Thai, but it showed no "jhanic" results. I suppose it will take much more time and a long preparatory work in everyday life to build a strong basis for 1-7 factors of the Noble Eightfold Path before taking a "full throttle" on the 8th. And only then, probably, it will be possible to enter jhana in some months of intensive samadhi practice.

[Lazy_eye]

Just as a side note, let me mention that the book includes an introduction from Ven. Pa Auk Sayadaw, so presumably he approves of their project.

LE

[meindzai]

A few months of consistent practice, study and some outside pushes in the right direction can bring very good results.

Few months... well, don't know. I tried one month of intensive meditation practice in Thai, but it showed no "jhanic" results. I suppose it will take much more time and a long preparatory work in everyday life to build a strong basis for 1-7 factors of the Noble Eightfold Path before taking a "full throttle" on the 8th. And only then, probably, it will be possible to enter jhana in some months of intensive samadhi practice.

Consider all the factors that may go into jhana:

1) views about practice and dhamma (widom factor)
2) presence or absence of hindrances
3) practice of sila/precepts
4) time spent
5) effort spent
6) paramis/previous life experience /natural affinity or however you want to qualify this
7) environment

Anything else? Just with these factors alone I think it's impossible to know how long it would take for anybody to attain jhana. Some people might stumble onto it while staring at a candle one day, and another person might have eons to go. I personally think it is possible for a lay person with lots of time and effort, but I am often guilty of the heinous crime of optimism.

-M

[BlackBird]

Just as a side note, let me mention that the book includes an introduction from Ven. Pa Auk Sayadaw, so presumably he approves of their project.

LE

Jhanas Advice from Two Spiritual Friends by Stephen Snyder and Tina Rasmussen presents the ancient practices of the jhanas as experienced by two Western practitioners. The authors, taught personally by the Venerable Pa Auk Sayadaw, completed all eight jhanas and other meditation practices under his guidance. Their book begins with the preliminary practices and then proceeds through each of the eight jhanas and accompanying practices, including tips and pointers for the reader.

Jhanas Advice from Two Spiritual Friends has been endorsed by the Venerable Pa Auk Sayadaw who carefully reviewed the manuscript. The Sayadaw's suggestions have been incorporated into the book.

- http://www.paauk.org/files/newbook.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Jack

[Virgo]

There is alot of talk in this thread about the necessity of jhana. Jhana is very kusala so insight with jhana is always the highest way. But at the same time it also depends on accumulations. As far as reaching Nibbana without samatha Jhanas is concerned: http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/index. ... c=93&st=20.

As far as the book is concerned, I read it in it's original form, "Jhanas Advice From Two Spiritual Friends", Lazy-eye. It is a very good book, well worth the read. I definitely recommend it.

Kevin

[pegembara]

The first broad categorization would be into "Sutta Jhanas" and "Visuddhimagga Jhanas". The Jhanas as discussed in the suttas are accessible to many people. The suttas seem to indicate that they were just part of the monastics' training program; thus they were not a big deal and were accessible to many.

However, the Visuddhimagga states in section XII.8 that of those who undertake the meditation path, only one in 1,000,000 (at best) can reach absorption 1. We don't have to take this figure literally to begin to understand that the Jhanas as discussed in the Visuddhimagga are of a much deeper level of concentration than those described in the suttas. Basically, the Visuddhimagga Jhanas seem to be much more developed and systematized than those of the suttas.

http://www.leighb.com/jhanantp.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2009/03/bg ... vipassana/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[robertk]

to attain jhana one is completly removed from sense desire.

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[PeterB]

I think the possibility of self deception is this area is very very high.

[Kenshou]

I think the possibility of self deception is this area is very very high.

There is always that chance, however, to quote Thanissaro:

"This was why, as long as your awareness was still and alert all-around, it didn't matter whether you were in the first or the fourteenth jhana, for the way you treated your state of concentration was always the same. By directing your attention to issues of stress and its absence, he [Fuang] was pointing you to terms by which to evaluate your state of mind for yourself, without having to ask any outside authority. And, as it turns out, the terms you can evaluate for yourself — stress, its cause, its cessation, and the path to its cessation — are the issues that define the four noble truths: the right view that the Buddha says can lead to total liberation."

[jcsuperstar]

how long were you practicing before your intensive practice? what were you taught? i went years in zen without jhana, then living in a Wat in thailand learned the mahasi style of meditation where jhana was not taught to me and went more years without jhana, read up on it on my own went on a 10 day solo retreat at a thai wat here in america and bam there it was. did it take me 10 days to learn it or did it take me all those years of sitting to build up to it? maybe both i dont know. but i do believe that if i had started in a system that put emphasis on jhana i dont think it would have taken me so long, and that seems to be the consensus from "experts" in teaching jhana, that with the right guide, the right students will progress quickly.

[bodom]

I think the possibility of self deception is this area is very very high.

Best to study chapter V. Purification by Knowledge and Vision of What is Path and Not-path of the Visuddhimagga to avoid this trouble.

Heres a summary from Mahasi Sayadaw:

 While engaged in noticing, the meditator either by himself or through instructions from someone else, comes to this decision: "The brilliant light, and the other things experienced by me, are not the path. Delight in them is merely a corruption of insight. The practice of continuously noticing the object as it becomes evident — that alone is the way of insight. I must go on with just the work of noticing." This decision is called purification by knowledge and vision of what is path and not-path.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... s.html#ch5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;