What is holding you back from ordaining?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Guy
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by Guy » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:03 am

Hi Ando,
ando wrote:Does it matter what one's intentions are though when it comes to being a monastic? Any thoughts?
The three types of Right Intention: Renunciation, Kindness, Compassion.

If you ordain with these intentions in mind then only positive results can come from that.

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

ando
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by ando » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:32 am

Thanks Guy,

One of the things I've had trouble explaining to my non-Buddhist friends is in what way was Gotama kind and compassionate when he walked out from his wife and child. I'm still uncertain if he had the permission of his parents and wife when he did.

Quite frankly, my leaving my family would cause hardship to my siblings who, like my parents, depend on my income to survive. My renuncuation would be a betrayal, a most unkind act to them. Although my desire to ordain is high, I haven't finished thinking about the fallout that would happen when I leave home. :|

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Guy
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by Guy » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:13 am

Hi Ando,
ando wrote:One of the things I've had trouble explaining to my non-Buddhist friends is in what way was Gotama kind and compassionate when he walked out from his wife and child. I'm still uncertain if he had the permission of his parents and wife when he did.
This is just my understanding of why he left, I might be wrong: After seeing the realities of aging, sickness and death which apply to all beings the Buddha-to-be had a strong sense of urgency to find the way out of suffering. In India at that time the spiritual quest was relatively common, many people left home and became wanderers and ascetics. From a Buddhist POV, the difference between the Buddha and other wanderers is that the others failed to reach the goal, whereas the Buddha successfully fulfilled the spiritual life, discovered the Four Noble Truths, and taught the True Dhamma to others.

First of all his compassion was to himself, I believe that he recognized that if he is to help anyone else out of Dukkha he must first help himself. As kind and compassionate as he could be to his family in a household life that kindness and compassion would never be as far-reaching and long-lasting in its benefit (to himself and other beings) compared to if he became the Buddha, which I am very grateful he did. Once he attained Buddhahood he could help many many beings that he might not have been able to otherwise even if he were the best husband, the best father or even the best king. Also, the kind of happiness a husband, father or king can provide is only temporary whereas a Buddha who teaches others how to free themselves from suffering forever, irreversibly is the greatest gift he could give to the world.
Quite frankly, my leaving my family would cause hardship to my siblings who, like my parents, depend on my income to survive. My renuncuation would be a betrayal, a most unkind act to them. Although my desire to ordain is high, I haven't finished thinking about the fallout that would happen when I leave home. :|
You don't need to rediscover the Dhamma - the Buddha has done the hard work already. If it is not practical to become a monastic at the moment I wouldn't worry too much, just do the best you can for now. Even lay people can become stream-winners, once-returners and non-returners. Worst case scenario is you live a wholesome life as a kind and caring layperson. That's not so bad, is it?

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

ando
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by ando » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:44 am

Guy wrote:This is just my understanding of why he left, I might be wrong: After seeing the realities of aging, sickness and death which apply to all beings the Buddha-to-be had a strong sense of urgency to find the way out of suffering.
Hello Guy, yes this is precisely why I would ordain. Not to rediscover but to walk down the discovered path. Staying on as a householder is inviting more suffering on oneself, especially when one has developed a dispassion for it. The parable of the turtle and the rarity of human life tells me I better not miss this train, but doing so would mean deserting my dependents. It's a hard decision to make.

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Wind
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by Wind » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:47 am

ando wrote:
Guy wrote:This is just my understanding of why he left, I might be wrong: After seeing the realities of aging, sickness and death which apply to all beings the Buddha-to-be had a strong sense of urgency to find the way out of suffering.
Hello Guy, yes this is precisely why I would ordain. Not to rediscover but to walk down the discovered path. Staying on as a householder is inviting more suffering on oneself, especially when one has developed a dispassion for it. The parable of the turtle and the rarity of human life tells me I better not miss this train, but doing so would mean deserting my dependents. It's a hard decision to make.
It is indeed a hard decision there ando, one I can somewhat relate. I too have to make sure my family is taken care of before I can ever consider ordaining. They will probably need my financial support during these hard economic times. I don't want to live them in burden. I am trying my best to save up as much as I can so that if I do decide to ordain, I will leave them with all my savings. Although what i leave them will not last long, it is the best I can do. And I wish to one day be able to gain some attainments in my practice so that I can then offer them an even better gift than money, the Dhamma.

Wish you the best ando.

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pilgrim
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by pilgrim » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:52 am

Not sure if I can handle the boredom. I enjoy visiting monasteries, but after a few hours there, I start thinking. "OK, its time to go".

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jcsuperstar
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by jcsuperstar » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:12 am

really? when i'm at temple i never want to leave...
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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pilgrim
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by pilgrim » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:24 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Check out this web site: Going Forth
This is an old website of mine which I have neglected for too long. I've repaired the broken links. Feel free to inform me of other good links I should add to the collection.

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pilgrim
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by pilgrim » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 am

jcsuperstar wrote:really? when i'm at temple i never want to leave...
Maybe I need to stay long enough to break through the restlessness. :juggling:

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effort
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by effort » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:42 am

good for you all, but here i'm in trouble with my instincts, and always thinking that there is a lot of time when you ordained how long you can read scriptures, how many hours in the day you can study dhamma and meditate, and as monk what you will do the rest of the time, but first i have to deal with my sexual desire and food ( during retreat that damn McDonald sign become vivid! after some time i have to turn that into my nimitta :thinking: :stirthepot: :pig: ).

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Cittasanto
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by Cittasanto » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:30 am

Hi Effort,
is that really your nimita?
or were you just standing there salivating? :jumping: :jumping:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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BlackBird
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by BlackBird » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:53 am

effort wrote:and as monk what you will do the rest of the time
Dhamma practice 18/7/365 :)

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Clueless Git
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by Clueless Git » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:02 pm

ando wrote:Sometimes when I think about ordaining or even a life of solitude, I think about this:

Am I running towards something?
Or am I running away from something?
I can empathise with that.

I think, that untill I attain my goal of total world domination, that if I ordained I would never be sure if the 'real' world had not just been a bit too big for me and that I had maybe chickened out.

Big nods to all those who put their obligations, particularly to their children, ahead of fulfilling their own personal dream btw .. :bow:

meindzai
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by meindzai » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:04 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
meindzai wrote:Pretty much sealed that last week too since I got engaged. :)
Congratulations! (I think? :tongue: - it feels like a funny sub-forum in which to say that...)
lol. I know, right? I had debated just making a general post about it in the lounge but it even felt wierd to announce it as if I was saying "Welp. Guess I'll be sticking around samsara a little while since I'm getting married soon." But I actually believe I'll make a better husband than monk. Having contemplated a celibate life before getting into a relationship, I can't even bare the thought of being anything less than completely loyal, faithful, and respectful of my partner. Marriage may be samsara but it doesn't have to be hell. :)

-M

meindzai
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Re: What is holding you back from ordaining?

Post by meindzai » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:09 pm

pilgrim wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:really? when i'm at temple i never want to leave...
Maybe I need to stay long enough to break through the restlessness. :juggling:
I actually empathize with you pilgrim, though or me it's a "grass is greener" scenario. When I'm at the monastery for awhile I start to miss home, and when I go home I start to wish I was at a monastery. Guess I am like the foolish, inexperienced mountain cow.

-M

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