Thanks, Chowna. Yes, I remember.....a large size, was argued, requires more determination and effort to kill.
I think one of the Venerables also pointed out that the higher developed animal suffers more, has 5, instead of 4 senses, 'aggregates'?
Orca kills third human
Re: Orca kills third human
So it's worse to kill a whale or an elephant than a person?
Kim
Kim
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christopher:::
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Orca kills third human
Shows to go on at SeaWorld, king of orca business
excerpts:
Shamu shows will resume Saturday, three days after a six-ton bull orca dragged Dawn Brancheau underwater to her death at the end of a show in Orlando, SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment President Jim Atchison said Friday.... "We have created an extraordinary opportunity for people to get an up-close, personal experience and be inspired and connect with marine life in a way they cannot do anywhere else in the world," Atchison said as orcas swam behind him on the other side of an underwater window, "and for that we will make no apologies."
The timing of the killer whales' return to performances reflects just what the sleek black-and-white mammals mean to SeaWorld, which the private equity firm The Blackstone Group bought last fall for around $2.7 billion from Anheuser-Busch InBev in a deal that included two Busch Gardens theme parks and several other attractions. "SeaWorld operations are built around Shamu and the orca. So quantitatively they mean literally hundreds of millions of dollars to that company," said Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services, a consulting firm.
No animal is more valuable to that operation than Tilikum, the largest orca in captivity, which now has been involved in the deaths of two trainers and requires a special set of handling rules, which Atchison wouldn't specify. Captured nearly 30 years ago off Iceland, Tilikum has grown into the alpha male of captive killer whales, his value as a stud impossible to pin down.
Killer whales — actually part of the porpoise family — aren't endangered; estimates of their worldwide population range from 50,000 to more than 100,000. But it is illegal to capture killer whales in the U.S. and several other countries, and while a few have been caught in recent years in Russia and Japan, U.S. import laws make it difficult to acquire an orca caught in the wild. "Really, you can't buy them," said Speigel, who put the market value of an individual whale at up to $10 million.
That makes breeding the best way to build a collection of killer whales to draw in visitors at up to $78.95 apiece to sit in the splash zone or take pictures of their kids petting Shamu, the stage name SeaWorld gives all of its adult orcas in shows. And no one is better at breeding killer whales than SeaWorld. The company owns 25 of the 42 orcas in captivity, and other theme parks sometimes come to SeaWorld to get theirs.
At the heart of it all is Tilikum, bought in 1992 from a now-defunct Canadian park where he was one of three orcas that battered and submerged a fallen trainer until she died. After the woman slipped into the water, she became like a plaything to the three whales, said Adam Hellicar, a former diver at Sealand of the Pacific near Victoria, British Columbia.
"They were towing her around by her clothing," said Hellicar, who helped recover the woman's body. SeaWorld got an emergency permit to buy Tilikum and the other two whales less than a year after that attack, and he became the company's go-to sire. Of the 20 calves born at SeaWorld parks, Tilikum has fathered 13, the company said. SeaWorld has only one other breeding male at the moment.
excerpts:
Shamu shows will resume Saturday, three days after a six-ton bull orca dragged Dawn Brancheau underwater to her death at the end of a show in Orlando, SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment President Jim Atchison said Friday.... "We have created an extraordinary opportunity for people to get an up-close, personal experience and be inspired and connect with marine life in a way they cannot do anywhere else in the world," Atchison said as orcas swam behind him on the other side of an underwater window, "and for that we will make no apologies."
The timing of the killer whales' return to performances reflects just what the sleek black-and-white mammals mean to SeaWorld, which the private equity firm The Blackstone Group bought last fall for around $2.7 billion from Anheuser-Busch InBev in a deal that included two Busch Gardens theme parks and several other attractions. "SeaWorld operations are built around Shamu and the orca. So quantitatively they mean literally hundreds of millions of dollars to that company," said Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services, a consulting firm.
No animal is more valuable to that operation than Tilikum, the largest orca in captivity, which now has been involved in the deaths of two trainers and requires a special set of handling rules, which Atchison wouldn't specify. Captured nearly 30 years ago off Iceland, Tilikum has grown into the alpha male of captive killer whales, his value as a stud impossible to pin down.
Killer whales — actually part of the porpoise family — aren't endangered; estimates of their worldwide population range from 50,000 to more than 100,000. But it is illegal to capture killer whales in the U.S. and several other countries, and while a few have been caught in recent years in Russia and Japan, U.S. import laws make it difficult to acquire an orca caught in the wild. "Really, you can't buy them," said Speigel, who put the market value of an individual whale at up to $10 million.
That makes breeding the best way to build a collection of killer whales to draw in visitors at up to $78.95 apiece to sit in the splash zone or take pictures of their kids petting Shamu, the stage name SeaWorld gives all of its adult orcas in shows. And no one is better at breeding killer whales than SeaWorld. The company owns 25 of the 42 orcas in captivity, and other theme parks sometimes come to SeaWorld to get theirs.
At the heart of it all is Tilikum, bought in 1992 from a now-defunct Canadian park where he was one of three orcas that battered and submerged a fallen trainer until she died. After the woman slipped into the water, she became like a plaything to the three whales, said Adam Hellicar, a former diver at Sealand of the Pacific near Victoria, British Columbia.
"They were towing her around by her clothing," said Hellicar, who helped recover the woman's body. SeaWorld got an emergency permit to buy Tilikum and the other two whales less than a year after that attack, and he became the company's go-to sire. Of the 20 calves born at SeaWorld parks, Tilikum has fathered 13, the company said. SeaWorld has only one other breeding male at the moment.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Re: Orca kills third human
Is an animal on a higher plane than a human?Kim O'Hara wrote:So it's worse to kill a whale or an elephant than a person?
Kim
Re: Orca kills third human
There is so much money involved.christopher::: wrote:Shows to go on at SeaWorld, king of orca business
excerpts:
Shamu shows will resume Saturday, three days after a six-ton bull orca dragged Dawn Brancheau underwater to her death at the end of a show in Orlando, SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment President Jim Atchison said Friday.... "We have created an extraordinary opportunity for people to get an up-close, personal experience and be inspired and connect with marine life in a way they cannot do anywhere else in the world," Atchison said as orcas swam behind him on the other side of an underwater window, "and for that we will make no apologies."
The timing of the killer whales' return to performances reflects just what the sleek black-and-white mammals mean to SeaWorld, which the private equity firm The Blackstone Group bought last fall for around $2.7 billion from Anheuser-Busch InBev in a deal that included two Busch Gardens theme parks and several other attractions. "SeaWorld operations are built around Shamu and the orca. So quantitatively they mean literally hundreds of millions of dollars to that company," said Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services, a consulting firm.
No animal is more valuable to that operation than Tilikum, the largest orca in captivity, which now has been involved in the deaths of two trainers and requires a special set of handling rules, which Atchison wouldn't specify. Captured nearly 30 years ago off Iceland, Tilikum has grown into the alpha male of captive killer whales, his value as a stud impossible to pin down.
Killer whales — actually part of the porpoise family — aren't endangered; estimates of their worldwide population range from 50,000 to more than 100,000. But it is illegal to capture killer whales in the U.S. and several other countries, and while a few have been caught in recent years in Russia and Japan, U.S. import laws make it difficult to acquire an orca caught in the wild. "Really, you can't buy them," said Speigel, who put the market value of an individual whale at up to $10 million.
That makes breeding the best way to build a collection of killer whales to draw in visitors at up to $78.95 apiece to sit in the splash zone or take pictures of their kids petting Shamu, the stage name SeaWorld gives all of its adult orcas in shows. And no one is better at breeding killer whales than SeaWorld. The company owns 25 of the 42 orcas in captivity, and other theme parks sometimes come to SeaWorld to get theirs.
At the heart of it all is Tilikum, bought in 1992 from a now-defunct Canadian park where he was one of three orcas that battered and submerged a fallen trainer until she died. After the woman slipped into the water, she became like a plaything to the three whales, said Adam Hellicar, a former diver at Sealand of the Pacific near Victoria, British Columbia.
"They were towing her around by her clothing," said Hellicar, who helped recover the woman's body. SeaWorld got an emergency permit to buy Tilikum and the other two whales less than a year after that attack, and he became the company's go-to sire. Of the 20 calves born at SeaWorld parks, Tilikum has fathered 13, the company said. SeaWorld has only one other breeding male at the moment.
It almost sounds as if the death of trainers is something they accept as collateral damage.
Re: Orca kills third human
I just heard on TV that even though Seaworld denies the Orca was bored and therefore attacked, a(former?) trainer thinks Tilikim had indeed been bored, by having been kept alone for several days in a very small pool.
I wouldn't call that bored. I would like to call that tortured.
If we are kept alone in a cell, we call it isolation jail, and it is considered a form of torture.
Whales are highly intelligent and sociable beings. They need the company of other Orcas or some sort of distraction and entertainment or they become upset.
OF COURSE they will be bored alone, angry and upset, just like I would be!
We, the human society is responsible for that death. Everybody who pays for silly entertainment like that.
If you don't want to support that, please don't buy tickets for Seaworld.
Teach your children well, why you won't go there with them.
There will be millions of others going there anyways, until we all know it's not good to keep dolphins and whales caged.
YOU make a difference.
Just like all of us make a difference when we boycott fur coats.
Today, I saw a wild cat fur coat, which originally costs thousands, secondhand for 30 Euros.
30 Euros!!!
Nobody wants to wear them anymore.
I wouldn't call that bored. I would like to call that tortured.
If we are kept alone in a cell, we call it isolation jail, and it is considered a form of torture.
Whales are highly intelligent and sociable beings. They need the company of other Orcas or some sort of distraction and entertainment or they become upset.
OF COURSE they will be bored alone, angry and upset, just like I would be!
We, the human society is responsible for that death. Everybody who pays for silly entertainment like that.
If you don't want to support that, please don't buy tickets for Seaworld.
Teach your children well, why you won't go there with them.
There will be millions of others going there anyways, until we all know it's not good to keep dolphins and whales caged.
YOU make a difference.
Just like all of us make a difference when we boycott fur coats.
Today, I saw a wild cat fur coat, which originally costs thousands, secondhand for 30 Euros.
30 Euros!!!
Nobody wants to wear them anymore.
-
christopher:::
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Orca kills third human
Indeed. I do think these animals are bored, frustrated... not intentionally meaning to kill people but they do have an innate desire for more intense interactions, it's natural. I imagine if squirrels or mice were keeping humans as captives to "entertain" their friends (for nuts) these same incidents would happen, probably more frequently...Annapurna wrote:
It almost sounds as if the death of trainers is something they accept as collateral damage.
Imagine squirrels keeping you in an enclosed space, even bringing their kids around to ride on your back every day....
"The MMC survey from the University of California discovered that more than half of marine mammal workers had been injured by the animals (251 cases) Those in regular contact with marine mammals or involved with cleaning and repairing enclosures were more likely to be injured. Trainers and dolphinarium staff are frequently injured, but these incidents are rarely reported publicly."
~Naomi Rose PhD. 2009
The Case Against Marine Mammals in Captivity (pdf file)
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
-
BubbaBuddhist
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
- Contact:
Re: Orca kills third human
I'm not a fan of animals used as entertainment. Yet what a dilemma. Sometimes it's used to raise money to help preserve wildlife. But animals is circuses and theme parks and other attractions. Arggh. Don't get me started.
We have truly made a mess of this world. Is it even possible for us to begin to clean it up?
J
(have a flu today and seeing things kinda grumpy
)
We have truly made a mess of this world. Is it even possible for us to begin to clean it up?
J
(have a flu today and seeing things kinda grumpy
)Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
Re: Orca kills third human
Get well soon, BubbaBuddhist!
Chris, thanks for te link. Have only read the first page so far, but already agree with all that was said.
Perhaps the species Orca also has a different temper from other whales.
Throughout history we have reports of free living dolphins carrying drowning fishermen back to the shore, and placing them onto land, well understanding they would die in the ocean, and that they need to be on land.
This is an exceptional evidence of intelligence, insight, compassion and good will, even though they, too, could kill us, if they ram us with their noses.
Orcas however, are much larger, and while we don't know of free living Orcas ever having killed humans, they have done so in captivity.
So, I conclude they have a different temperament.
I also noticed that Orcas have extreme colors, black and white, which somehow signal 'danger' to me, sort of like the colors of wasps and tigers.
Dolphins however are grey, black and white melted into one...colors say a lot in the animal kingdom.
And then size....
Tigers also attack humans at times, while the "attacks" of domesticated cats usually remain harmless.
So, perhaps we just shouldn't mess with Orcas any longer and set them free. They are not threatened anyways.
Won't happen. Money.
Chris, thanks for te link. Have only read the first page so far, but already agree with all that was said.
Perhaps the species Orca also has a different temper from other whales.
Throughout history we have reports of free living dolphins carrying drowning fishermen back to the shore, and placing them onto land, well understanding they would die in the ocean, and that they need to be on land.
This is an exceptional evidence of intelligence, insight, compassion and good will, even though they, too, could kill us, if they ram us with their noses.
Orcas however, are much larger, and while we don't know of free living Orcas ever having killed humans, they have done so in captivity.
So, I conclude they have a different temperament.
I also noticed that Orcas have extreme colors, black and white, which somehow signal 'danger' to me, sort of like the colors of wasps and tigers.
Dolphins however are grey, black and white melted into one...colors say a lot in the animal kingdom.
And then size....
Tigers also attack humans at times, while the "attacks" of domesticated cats usually remain harmless.
So, perhaps we just shouldn't mess with Orcas any longer and set them free. They are not threatened anyways.
Won't happen. Money.
Re: Orca kills third human
Another attack - different species, different motive.
No-one is blaming the animal this time.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... 833274.htm
Kim
No-one is blaming the animal this time.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... 833274.htm
Kim
Re: Orca kills third human
Interesting, Kim, thanks.
It seems that in both cases an insensitive treatment of the animals bonds to mates caused upset and aggravation.
I guess we would be just as upset, as Chris said.
Imagine we were being kept away from our loves by smaller animals, which have the means to lock us up and make us jump around at command ....I couldn't guarantee for myself, to be honest. Wouldn't a little bite in the arm or pulling the tail be nice?
It seems that in both cases an insensitive treatment of the animals bonds to mates caused upset and aggravation.
I guess we would be just as upset, as Chris said.
Imagine we were being kept away from our loves by smaller animals, which have the means to lock us up and make us jump around at command ....I couldn't guarantee for myself, to be honest. Wouldn't a little bite in the arm or pulling the tail be nice?