Is discussing dhamma a kind of mental proliferation ?

[form]

Only in this thread.

The Suttas are permeated with discussions with the monks, a back and forth, analyzing the Dhamma and often at the end, many monks or nuns attaining stream entry right there or in some cases, full enlightenment.

That is what Ven. Khemaka said. Gratified, the elder monks delighted in his words. And while this explanation was being given, the minds of sixty-some monks, through no clinging, were fully released from fermentations — as was Ven. Khemaka's.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Not saying that will happen here but baby steps, gradual path, some progress can be made.

The pre existing and actual conditions are far apart in the two set of circumstances.

[DNS]

The pre existing and actual conditions are far apart in the two set of circumstances.

So? No need to give up just because the journey is long.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
famous Chinese proverb

[form]

The pre existing and actual conditions are far apart in the two set of circumstances.

So? No need to give up just because the journey is long.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
famous Chinese proverb

A lot harder and much more uncertainties for modern people.

[chownah]

Since there has not been a precise definition given for "mental proliferation" it seems that this topic is a setup for mental proliferation.
chownah

[sentinel]

Is discussing dhamma a kind of mental proliferation ?

It depends. Does the discussion involve any of the threefold classification: tanha, ditthi, mana? See detailed description of the term Papanca

Can non SP yet with mundane right view discuss dhamma without craving , wrong view and conceit ?
Even Sotapanna are still bound by craving and conceit is it not ? Does that mean Sotapanna still affected by mental proliferation ?

For example now I am not feeling well with low bp still interested in understanding the dhamma , is that a mental proliferation ?

[sentinel]

Proliferation is mental. That is unwholesome Vitakka and Vicara (proliferation).

Do you think Buddha and arahant has vitakka and vicara ?

[santa100]

Can non SP yet with mundane right view discuss dhamma without craving , wrong view and conceit? Even Sotapanna are still bound by craving and conceit is it not ? Does that mean Sotapanna still affected by mental proliferation ?

Since Sotapannas have only abandoned wrong view, but not craving nor conceit, even they would still be subjected to papanca, though to a much lesser degree than unenlightened worldlings.

For example now I am not feeling well with low bp still interested in understanding the dhamma , is that a mental proliferation ?

Per the logic from the first paragraph, there'll always be various different levels of tanha/ditthi/mana existing in an unenlightened worldling, hence there'll always be various different levels of papanca existing until one's reached arahantship. But it's important to notice that the papanca as a result of gossiping on frivolous matters is way grosser/heavier than that of dhamma inquiry (provided that the inquiry is not ego-driven, ie. to show off one's knowledge, etc.). Papanca doesn't just appear and disappear all of a sudden. It'll take much time and effort to slowly erode it until it completely goes away.

[SarathW]

Proliferation is mental. That is unwholesome Vitakka and Vicara (proliferation).

Do you think Buddha and arahant has vitakka and vicara ?

I think they have wholesome Vitakka and Vicara.

[sentinel]

.......

Thanks santa . It seems papanca is not a fetter and not in the fetters lists .

[sentinel]

I think they have wholesome Vitakka and Vicara.

So , the Buddha and Arahants still give rise to wholesome thoughts , that's mean they have dualistic thinking !

[SteRo]

Since there has not been a precise definition given for "mental proliferation" it seems that this topic is a setup for mental proliferation.
chownah

Mental proliferation are fabrications.

Directed thought & evaluation are verbal fabrications. Perceptions & feelings are mental fabrications."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

[SteRo]

Can non SP yet with mundane right view discuss dhamma without craving , wrong view and conceit ?

I think temporarily yes. The fact that a worldling is affected by craving , wrong view and conceit does not mean that she/he is permanently affected by it. So it depends on conditions of practice.

Even Sotapanna are still bound by craving and conceit is it not ? Does that mean Sotapanna still affected by mental proliferation ?

The decisive expression here is "affected by". As a Sotapanna still has fabrications, i.e. mental proliferation, but has not abandoned all fetters, she/he is still affected by mental proliferation. But since she/he should be experienced through practice she/he should be able to suppress most of it.
An Arahant still has fabrications, i.e. mental proliferation, too, but she/he is no longer affected by them.
My view.

For example now I am not feeling well with low bp still interested in understanding the dhamma , is that a mental proliferation ?

Feeling is fabrications, i.e. mental proliferation. What is bp?

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Yes. All to often it is. I post much less often here than I used to because it is hard to find a Dhamma discussion here. I can only quote again a passage from Mahāsi Sayādaw's discourse on the Vammika Sutta:

Four or five elders from that town were chatting on a religious topic. It is customary in Burma among knowledgeable elderly people to meet whenever there is any social or religious function such as a memorial service for the deceased. They usually discuss religious topics while the reception is going on with light refreshments such as green tea and some delicacies like pickled tea-leaf (laphet). Sometimes, heated discussions take place, and the participants disagree on controversial points. On this occasion, the elders became indignant and assaulted one another ending up with them being interviewed by police officers. The news editor who reported the story, remarked that the elders concerned had been placed in police custody, but “a redeeming feature” was that the topic of discussion happened to be on patience (khantī).

The editor hit the nail right on the head. Intolerance is the worst thing when discussing the topic of patience, which needs to be exercised as advised by the Buddha. Indignation resembles the toad that swells up. It gives a great deal of trouble and therefore really needs to be discarded.

[sentinel]

What is bp?

Blood pressure

[sentinel]

Yes. All to often it is. I post much less often here than I used to because it is hard to find a Dhamma discussion here.

Thanks bhante . From the suttas itself we could see there were discussion and debate between Buddha disciples themselves and sometimes with other ascetic .
Discussion , questions and answers and clarifying the dhamma should not be an obstacle I supposed .