Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
zan
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Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by zan » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:18 pm

Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.






.





I do not believe this, but want to hear the counters to this idea and this is the least convoluted way
Never read anything I write as an accurate statement about anything whatsoever. First, look to wiser ones than I. Look to wise texts. Unless you can confirm their accuracy from a reliable source, treat my writings like word games, nothing more.

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by cappuccino » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:25 pm

nir·va·na
noun
the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth



sam·sa·ra
noun
the cycle of death and rebirth to which life in the material world is bound

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:38 pm

Nibbana and Samsara could be identical if you take Nibbana as an objective reality.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by DooDoot » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:04 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:38 pm
Nibbana and Samsara could be identical if you take Nibbana as an objective reality.
Nibbana = an objective reality
Samsara = an objective reality
Nibbana = Samsara

A frog = an animal
A dog = an animal
A frog = a dog

SarathW breathes
A jellyfish breathes
SarathW is a jellyfish

SarathW eats bananas
Monkeys eat bananas
SarathW is a monkey

:strawman: :strawman: :strawman: :strawman: Four Noble Strawmen
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Aloka
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by Aloka » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:13 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:04 am
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:38 pm
Nibbana and Samsara could be identical if you take Nibbana as an objective reality.
Nibbana = an objective reality
Samsara = an objective reality
Nibbana = Samsara

A frog = an animal
A dog = an animal
A frog = a dog

SarathW breathes
A jellyfish breathes
SarathW is a jellyfish

SarathW eats bananas
Monkeys eat bananas
SarathW is a monkey

:strawman: :strawman: :strawman: :strawman: Four Noble Strawmen

Lol! :D



.

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SarathW » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:52 am

A frog = an animal
A dog = an animal
A frog = a dog
and
An animal = An animal.
:tongue:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

pegembara
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by pegembara » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 am

Nibbana and samsara are interdependent or coexistent.
There is, monks, an unborn[1] — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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DooDoot
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by DooDoot » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:10 am

pegembara wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 am
Nibbana and samsara are interdependent or coexistent.
Since Nibbana is unconditioned, how can the above be so? Possibly the Udana verse was misinterpreted. :shrug:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

pegembara
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by pegembara » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:51 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:10 am
pegembara wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 am
Nibbana and samsara are interdependent or coexistent.
Since Nibbana is unconditioned, how can the above be so? Possibly the Udana verse was misinterpreted. :shrug:
There is dukkha and the end of dukkha. How can dukkha end if there isn't dukkha in the first place?
Without dependent arising, there is no dependent cessation.

Consciousness and namarupa.
All sights, sounds, smells, tastes,
tactile sensations, & ideas
that are welcome,
appealing,
agreeable —
as long as they're said
to exist,
are supposed by the world
together with its devas
to be bliss.
But when they cease,
they're supposed by them
to be stress.
What others say is blissful,
the noble ones say is stress.
What others say is stressful,
the noble know as bliss.
See the Dhamma, hard to understand!
Here those who don't know
are confused.
For those who are veiled,
it's darkness,
blindness
for those who don't see.
But for the good it is blatant,
like light
for those who see.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SarathW » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:30 am

So what you are saying is we can't heal a wound without having another wound?
Are you saying we can't demolish a house and have a clean land?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SteRo
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SteRo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:19 am

How could the different meanings of two different words be identical?

char101
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by char101 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:22 am

If Nibanna is samsara then you would already have attained Nibanna.

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Bundokji
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by Bundokji » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:51 am

How about you tell us: on what basis you came to the conclusion that nibbana and samsara are identical?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

Dan74
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by Dan74 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:01 am

In order to discuss the OP statement, it would be helpful to really understand what it means, or what the OP thinks it means.
_/|\_

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retrofuturist
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:45 am

Greetings,
zan wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:18 pm
Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Nirvana is unconditioned, samsara is conditioned.

No amount of Mahariddling alters this true Dhamma.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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