Pope visits Thailand

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chownah
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

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Re: Pope visits Thailand

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binocular
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by binocular »

I clicked the link (which has the title "non-catholics-join-crowd-to-see-pope-at-bangkok-temple"), it tells me
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by binocular »

alfa wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:56 amI thought he was more open, more liberal, and therefore less judgmental of Buddhism?
How could he possibly? He presides over an institution that believes itself to be the authority over the lives and deaths of everyone on this planet.

DooDoot wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:28 amThe Catholic Church has been emasculated for a while now. Now, they also mostly engage in political correctness, like most of the others. While their former objections to other religions may have been wrong, they have also lost their inherent character, as Jesus taught
Well, at least during the time when they are doing their ecumenical stuff, they aren't throwing rocks at eachother.
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

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chownah wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:44 am Does being emasculated qualify one for FUQLBJ status?
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by alfa »

So Buddhists here hate the Pope because unlike his predecessors, he doesn't call Buddhism demonic, he cares about the climate/environment, he's not misogynistic or racist. Okay.
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by alfa »

binocular wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:14 pm
alfa wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:56 amI thought he was more open, more liberal, and therefore less judgmental of Buddhism?

How could he possibly? He presides over an institution that believes itself to be the authority over the lives and deaths of everyone on this planet.


DooDoot wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:28 amThe Catholic Church has been emasculated for a while now. Now, they also mostly engage in political correctness, like most of the others. While their former objections to other religions may have been wrong, they have also lost their inherent character, as Jesus taught
Well, at least during the time when they are doing their ecumenical stuff, they aren't throwing rocks at eachother.
That was in the past. The church has evolved, which is why someone called it emasculated. Emasculated (at least in right-wing circles) means sensitive, progressive, and civilised. :anjali:
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retrofuturist
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
alfa wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:52 am The church has evolved, which is why someone called it emasculated. Emasculated (at least in right-wing circles) means sensitive, progressive, and civilised.
Or it means deprived of its masculinity, and rendered weak and ineffective, as per the dictionary.

Kind regards.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by alfa »

retrofuturist wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:55 am Greetings,
alfa wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:52 am The church has evolved, which is why someone called it emasculated. Emasculated (at least in right-wing circles) means sensitive, progressive, and civilised.
Or it means deprived of its masculinity, and rendered weak and ineffective, as per the dictionary.

Kind regards.

Metta,
Paul. :)
The Church is not a military force, so I do not know how masculinity or strength plays a role here. The church is supposed to spread the word, heal the sick, help the poor. You need a heart to do that, not masculinity. Mother Teresa comes to mind.
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings alfa,
alfa wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:05 am The Church is not a military force, so I do not know how masculinity or strength plays a role here.
That's interesting. I will try not to speak on behalf of a Church which is not my own, but in my religion, Buddhism, the Buddha spoke in praise of manly effort.
AN 4.115 wrote: "Monks, there are these four courses of action. Which four? There is the course of action that is unpleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable. There is the course of action that is unpleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is profitable. There is the course of action that is pleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable. There is the course of action that is pleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is profitable.

"Now as for the course of action that is unpleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, one considers it as not worth doing for both reasons: because the course of action is unpleasant to do, one considers it as not worth doing; and because the course of action, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, one considers it as not worth doing. Thus one considers it as not worth doing for both reasons.

"As for the course of action that is unpleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is profitable, it is in light of this course of action that one may be known in terms of manly stamina, manly persistence, manly effort as a fool or a wise person. For a fool doesn't reflect, 'Even though this course of action is unpleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is profitable.' So he doesn't do it, and thus the non-doing of that course of action leads to what is unprofitable for him. But a wise person reflects, 'Even though this course of action is unpleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is profitable.' So he does it, and thus the doing of that course of action leads to what is profitable for him.

"As for the course of action that is pleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, it is in light of this course of action that one may be known in terms of manly stamina, manly persistence, manly effort as a fool or a wise person. For a fool doesn't reflect, 'Even though this course of action is pleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is unprofitable.' So he does it, and thus the doing of that course of action leads to what is unprofitable for him. But a wise person reflects, 'Even though this course of action is pleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is unprofitable.' So he doesn't do it, and thus the non-doing of that course of action leads to what is profitable for him.

"As for the course of action that is pleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is profitable, one considers it as worth doing for both reasons: because the course of action is pleasant to do, one considers it as worth doing; and because the course of action, when done, leads to what is profitable, one considers it as worth doing. Thus one considers it as worth doing for both reasons.

"These are the four courses of action."
A person or institution that is emasculated, is "rendered weak and ineffective" (as per the definition) and unable to execute manly action. This is probably why no one in the Catholic hierarchy had the "balls" to do what was right, in terms of standing up to pedophilia, child abuse and child trafficking within the Church.
alfa wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:05 am The church is supposed to spread the word, heal the sick, help the poor. You need a heart to do that, not masculinity. Mother Teresa comes to mind.
Again, I will not speak of what Churches are supposed to do (as my refuge lies with the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha) but I presume that being "weak and ineffective" and harbouring those who commit grievous acts upon children would be quite low on the list.

Kind regards.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
sentinel
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

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retrofuturist wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:14 am "weak and ineffective"
Hi retro , do you think Buddhism weak and ineffective ?
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

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Greetings Sentinel,
sentinel wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:34 am Hi retro , do you think Buddhism weak and ineffective ?
(Mindful not to deviate too far from the topic...)

I don't think the Dhamma is weak and ineffective, nor that the Buddha's Sangha was weak and ineffective.

I do believe there may be pockets of what is termed "Buddhism", which exhibit weakness and ineffectiveness, to the extent that they allow other factors or agendas to take precedence over the Triple Gem. Such factors may include the prominence of local customs, political correctness, socialism, feminism, vegetarianism, attachment to identity, political activism, apocryphal texts, ecumenical pandering or other "worldly" agendas, which some communities could come to regard as more important than the "supra-mundane" "right view without effluents" Dhamma. (e.g. California Buddhism)

In the Ani Sutta, the Blessed One foresaw this emasculated state...
Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained. [1]

"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."

Note - 1. The Commentary notes that the drum originally could be heard for twelve leagues, but in its final condition couldn't be heard even from behind a curtain.
The commentarial description of the final state of the drum seems synonymous with "weak and ineffective".

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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gavesako
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

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Notice the European-style architecture of the Bangkok temple in which the meeting took place. The relationship of the Catholic church with Thailand has a long history.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by alfa »

retrofuturist wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:14 am Greetings alfa,
alfa wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:05 am The Church is not a military force, so I do not know how masculinity or strength plays a role here.
That's interesting. I will try not to speak on behalf of a Church which is not my own, but in my religion, Buddhism, the Buddha spoke in praise of manly effort.
AN 4.115 wrote: "Monks, there are these four courses of action. Which four? There is the course of action that is unpleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable. There is the course of action that is unpleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is profitable. There is the course of action that is pleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable. There is the course of action that is pleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is profitable.

"Now as for the course of action that is unpleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, one considers it as not worth doing for both reasons: because the course of action is unpleasant to do, one considers it as not worth doing; and because the course of action, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, one considers it as not worth doing. Thus one considers it as not worth doing for both reasons.

"As for the course of action that is unpleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is profitable, it is in light of this course of action that one may be known in terms of manly stamina, manly persistence, manly effort as a fool or a wise person. For a fool doesn't reflect, 'Even though this course of action is unpleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is profitable.' So he doesn't do it, and thus the non-doing of that course of action leads to what is unprofitable for him. But a wise person reflects, 'Even though this course of action is unpleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is profitable.' So he does it, and thus the doing of that course of action leads to what is profitable for him.

"As for the course of action that is pleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, it is in light of this course of action that one may be known in terms of manly stamina, manly persistence, manly effort as a fool or a wise person. For a fool doesn't reflect, 'Even though this course of action is pleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is unprofitable.' So he does it, and thus the doing of that course of action leads to what is unprofitable for him. But a wise person reflects, 'Even though this course of action is pleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is unprofitable.' So he doesn't do it, and thus the non-doing of that course of action leads to what is profitable for him.

"As for the course of action that is pleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is profitable, one considers it as worth doing for both reasons: because the course of action is pleasant to do, one considers it as worth doing; and because the course of action, when done, leads to what is profitable, one considers it as worth doing. Thus one considers it as worth doing for both reasons.

"These are the four courses of action."
A person or institution that is emasculated, is "rendered weak and ineffective" (as per the definition) and unable to execute manly action. This is probably why no one in the Catholic hierarchy had the "balls" to do what was right, in terms of standing up to pedophilia, child abuse and child trafficking within the Church.
alfa wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:05 am The church is supposed to spread the word, heal the sick, help the poor. You need a heart to do that, not masculinity. Mother Teresa comes to mind.
Again, I will not speak of what Churches are supposed to do (as my refuge lies with the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha) but I presume that being "weak and ineffective" and harbouring those who commit grievous acts upon children would be quite low on the list.

Kind regards.

Metta,
Paul. :)
All this has nothing to do with manliness. It's about corruption, which plagues almost all institutions in the world, religious and otherwise. Political establishment, police, army - despite committing murder and war crimes, many of them are not behind bars. It's because institutions always try to protect their own. Nothing to do with manliness and everything to do with power dynamic. :anjali:
chownah
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Re: Pope visits Thailand

Post by chownah »

Did he leave yet?
Are thai people now safe from the Great Emasculator (as he is known in my village)?
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