A Problem?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
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Goofaholix
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Re: A Problem?

Post by Goofaholix »

If there is something clever about this question I'm missing it.

It could be that as Mendzai states the author thinks Buddhism we have had an infinate number of lives, which is silly, saying we have had an unknown or uncountable number of former lives would be more correct.

Other than that as jcsuperstar states the question appears to be "if i haven't done it yet, how can i ever do it?". The answer is in the words of Nike "Just do it".
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Sanghamitta
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Re: A Problem?

Post by Sanghamitta »

So, Collective, what do YOU think ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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effort
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Re: A Problem?

Post by effort »

i think that i read somewhere your counter starts from zero after the great big ban, after that god born then celestial beings... so even if you are stream enterer and your time is up( because of the big bang ) you have to start from zero. maybe my understanding from the text is this not what was in that!!

i just can say : 'know that there is almost no way out, just act in the way that you dont know it! or its a joke or dont care!!'

sure the paths helps to live more peaceful but there is no guaranty about the next.
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Collective
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Re: A Problem?

Post by Collective »

Sanghamitta wrote:So, Collective, what do YOU think ?
I think very similalry to what another poster said; mainly that what's crucially important to me right now is 'getting' there - where 'there' is, is utterly unimportant right now. And may always be.

It's about the journey not the destination.

Thanks all for your input :)
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ground
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Re: A Problem?

Post by ground »

Collective wrote:What do you think?
Collective wrote:Found this interesting:

"As a former Buddhist I have come upon a fundamental fallacy that no Buddhist (including several high Tibetan Lamas) have never been able to answer. There are a few facts that one has to confront first.
1. All Buddhists believe that once you have attained enlightenment--i.e. become a Buddha--you can never go back. Attaining enlightenment changes you forever, whether you are a Mayahana buddhist and return to the cycle of existence as a boddhisatva or as a Therevaden enter into Nirvana and stop the cycle of rebirth.

There is the presuposition that there is an "entity"** that does or does not do the "going back". This is the basic fallacy (in the context of the buddhist teaching system) since it does not comply with dependent origination of a multitude of factors/phenomena lacking a fundamental common "essense". If we concede dynamics (of a dynamic system which is a mere aggregation) then "going back" is very likely and phases of "steady states" are likely too. However there may then also be a sort of "phase transition" with a permanent steady state.

**Actually the same fallacy entails the numberless "rebirth" discussions.

Collective wrote: 2. All Buddhists believe that we have lived an infinite number of prior lives. This is because of the law of dependent origination. All phenomena have a cause which precedes it in time. This gives rise to the law of cause and effect, or karma. Tibetans have a rather beautiful way of encouraging compassion in this respect. They say that every sentient being has been your mother in a prior life, not just once, but an infinite number of times.


So...if this is true then it must be impossible for me to attain enlightenment, as I haven't become enlightened yet, even though I have had an INFINITE number of lives to do so.

Why? If you concede that the prerequiste is "being taught" then it is just the event of "being taught" that matters. And that may happen or not, sooner or later, and is dependent on the appearance of someone who knows and teaches and others who transmit his teaching - just to name the main parameters.


Kind regards
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: A Problem?

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Collective wrote:Found this interesting:

"As a former Buddhist I have come upon a fundamental fallacy that no Buddhist (including several high Tibetan Lamas) have never been able to answer. There are a few facts that one has to confront first.
1. All Buddhists believe that once you have attained enlightenment--i.e. become a Buddha--you can never go back. Attaining enlightenment changes you forever, whether you are a Mayahana buddhist and return to the cycle of existence as a boddhisatva or as a Therevaden enter into Nirvana and stop the cycle of rebirth.
2. All Buddhists believe that we have lived an infinite number of prior lives. This is because of the law of dependent origination. All phenomena have a cause which precedes it in time. This gives rise to the law of cause and effect, or karma. Tibetans have a rather beautiful way of encouraging compassion in this respect. They say that every sentient being has been your mother in a prior life, not just once, but an infinite number of times.

So...if this is true then it must be impossible for me to attain enlightenment, as I haven't become enlightened yet, even though I have had an INFINITE number of lives to do so.

I have asked zen monks, Tibetan lamas (Lama Zopa Rinpoche, Lama Choden Rinpoche, Lama Ribur Rinpoche, among others, this question and they either shrug their shoulders or laugh. But nobody gives me an answer."


What do you think?
Hi Collective

The falacy is the folowing: "if this is true then it must be impossible for me to attain enlightenment, as I haven't become enlightened yet, even though I have had an INFINITE number of lives to do so" ; Just because there's an infinite number of lives that doesn't mean that every event has happened to that person as there is an infinite number of events to happen. There could even be a finite number of events to happen that could repeat themselves infinitely.

Metta
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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