Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am

Auto wrote
internet search doesn't come up with anything, so i don't find that Sutta

a link to sutta https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
A detailed exposition of the sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el188.html

Dear Auto, I think you confuse the features of a great being with the goal of Buddhist jhanas. Goal of
four buddhist jhanas is 'The release from suffering' might one's sexual preference, or
what one wishes to accomplish in this regard, be part of it?

As for your excerpts from VSM, how is it related to the topic under discussion? Can we leave
VSM aside, at this point, and refer to the canon only? VSM contains commentaries, sometimes some are
on the mark, and others commentaries are made by highly theoretical
scholars, they complicate and confuse the work
of the practical meditator. :candle:

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DooDoot
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Re: Jhana

Post by DooDoot » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:37 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am
Goal of four buddhist jhanas is 'The release from suffering'
AN 4.41 appears to say the goal of four buddhist jhanas is 'a pleasant abiding in the here & now'.

AN 4.41 appears to say the goal of 'focused on arising & falling away with reference to the five clinging-aggregates' is 'the release from suffering (ending of the effluents)'.
AN 4.41 wrote:And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now.

And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents? There is the case where a monk remains focused on arising & falling away with reference to the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is feeling, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is perception, such its origination, such its passing away. Such are fabrications, such their origination, such their passing away. Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.' This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:10 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am
As for your excerpts from VSM, how is it related to the topic under discussion?
The word ñāṇadassana it is what you quoted from an4.41 but in english language what is translated as 'knowledge and vision'. It appears that Visuddhimagga has interpretation on what that word is.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am
Can we leave
VSM aside, at this point, and refer to the canon only?
Isn't it about what is in the canon?
You don't have to specifically focus on the visuddhimagga but leave it as a helpful side information to point out some things like maybe the 2nd point on the 4.41 is about insight(regardless if it is day or night) knowledges, it is valid argument.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am
VSM contains commentaries, sometimes some are
on the mark, and others commentaries are made by highly theoretical
scholars, they complicate and confuse the work
of the practical meditator.
is the interpretation of ñāṇadassana on the mark that it is about insight knowledge?
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:37 am
Dear Auto, I think you confuse the features of a great being with the goal of Buddhist jhanas. Goal of
four buddhist jhanas is 'The release from suffering' might one's sexual preference, or
what one wishes to accomplish in this regard, be part of it?
you expressed doubt it is in a canon, so i brought out Sutta evidence. And seem you still not understand it isn't about sexual preference..

here's another one from same Sutta,
https://suttacentral.net/mn91/en/sujato
So the Buddha used his psychic power to will that Brahmāyu would see his retracted private parts.
Atha kho bhagavā tathārūpaṃ iddhābhisaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkhāsi yathā addasa brahmāyu brāhmaṇo bhagavato kosohitaṃ vatthaguyhaṃ.

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DooDoot
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Re: Jhana

Post by DooDoot » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:54 pm

auto wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:10 pm
The word ñāṇadassana ... in english language what is translated as 'knowledge and vision'.
I think ñāṇadassana can be translated in two ways:

1. As wisdom, as found in SN 56.11 about realising the four noble truths, which means "knowledge & vision".

2. As psychic power or developing a brightened radiant mind, as found in AN 4.41/SN 51.20, which means "knowing & seeing".

I posted I think Pulsar has these two possible translations mixed-up. If we read AN 4.41 and the related teaching in SN 51.20, we find "developing a brightened radiant mind" is not related to the type of wisdom described in SN 56.11.

Regards :)
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:22 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:54 pm
auto wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:10 pm
The word ñāṇadassana ... in english language what is translated as 'knowledge and vision'.
I think ñāṇadassana can be translated in two ways:

1. As wisdom, as found in SN 56.11 about realising the four noble truths, which means "knowledge & vision".

2. As psychic power or developing a brightened radiant mind, as found in AN 4.41/SN 51.20, which means "knowing & seeing".

I posted I think Pulsar has these two possible translations mixed-up. If we read AN 4.41 and the related teaching in SN 51.20, we find "developing a brightened radiant mind" is not related to the type of wisdom described in SN 56.11.

Regards :)
add mn2, https://suttacentral.net/mn2/en/sujato#mn2:4.2
And what are the defilements that should be given up by seeing? Katame ca, bhikkhave, āsavā dassanā pahātabbā?
Can dassanā be certain type of noticing/naming?

https://suttacentral.net/sn56.11/en/sujato
‘This is the noble truth of suffering.’ Such was the vision, knowledge, wisdom, realization, and light that arose in me regarding teachings not learned before from another. ‘Idaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccan’ti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi, ñāṇaṃ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi.
dhammesu cakkhuṃ '...Such was the vision,'
āloko udapādi - 'light that arose in me'
This is that middle way, which gives vision and knowledge, and leads to peace, direct knowledge, awakening, and extinguishment. Ayaṃ kho sā, bhikkhave, majjhimā paṭipadā tathāgatena abhisambuddhā cakkhukaraṇī ñāṇakaraṇī upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṃvattati.
cakkhukaraṇī ..'gives vision'
ñāṇakaraṇī..'gives knowledge'

https://suttacentral.net/an4.41/en/sujato
It’s when a mendicant focuses on the perception of light, concentrating on the perception of day, Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ālokasaññaṃ manasi karoti, divāsaññaṃ adhiṭṭhāti—
regardless of whether it’s night or day. yathā divā tathā rattiṃ, yathā rattiṃ tathā divā.
https://suttacentral.net/sn51.20/en/sujato
And they meditate perceiving continuity: Pacchāpuresaññī ca viharati—
as before, so after; as after, so before; yathā pure tathā pacchā, yathā pacchā tathā pure;
as below, so above; as above, so below; yathā adho tathā uddhaṃ, yathā uddhaṃ tathā adho;
as by day, so by night; as by night, so by day. yathā divā tathā rattiṃ yathā rattiṃ tathā divā.
And so, with an open and unenveloped heart, they develop a mind that’s full of radiance. Iti vivaṭena cetasā apariyonaddhena sappabhāsaṃ cittaṃ bhāveti.
here's the logic. Perception of continuity, perceiving continuity. The before after, after before, day night is just saying how you do it, there is perception of continuity regardless of the changes day night, night day, before after..removing the distinction its same or similar to the example of vinnanam anidassam

https://suttacentral.net/dn11/en/sujato
“Consciousness that’s invisible, ‘Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ,
infinite, radiant all round. anantaṃ sabbatopabhaṃ;
Here’s where water and earth, Ettha āpo ca pathavī,
fire and air find no footing; tejo vāyo na gādhati.
here’s where long and short, Ettha dīghañca rassañca,
fine and coarse, beautiful and ugly; aṇuṃ thūlaṃ subhāsubhaṃ;
here’s where name and form Ettha nāmañca rūpañca,
cease with nothing left over—asesaṃ uparujjhati;
with the cessation of consciousness, Viññāṇassa nirodhena,
that’s where this ceases.”’” etthetaṃ uparujjhatī’”ti.
the middle way is vinnanam anidassam, it can be perception of light or perception of continuity, etc if it pertains to the logic.

vinnanam anidassam seem to be uninterrupted knowing or something like that. What causes interruptions is vinnana/rebirth consciousness, maybe.

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:17 am

As one develops a practice in 4 jhanas even to rudimentary levels, the rewards express themselves here and now. For instance Pulsar read MN 7 a while ago, it was just ordinary, the understanding minimal, did not leave a huge impression on Pulsar, say like MN 122 or MN 119
Here is MN 7
Vatthupama sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nypo.html
reading it recently Pulsar sees it altogether in a different light, extraordinary.
It does not refer to 4 jhanas as such, but the implication is not absent in the
text.
collect the forces of the mind and bring it to
unification,
when taints are suppressed from that samadhi, 
develops insight.
a moment
by moment activation of wisdom
The practice can take many forms, or a combination of practices, it all leads to the same goal. It is as if Buddha taught with all of us in mind, 4bv are easy for some, others access 4 establishments of mindfulness more easily, the requirements for first jhana is very similar to those of kayanupasana,
the guarding of the sense doors, and distancing oneself from the sense world, alleviation of
somanassa and domanassa.
It moves us towards fine material sphere. Something one must always recall, Jhana is not a stand alone thing, it is found threading through all the other essential practices, i.e. awakening factors.
The meditator in 4th jhana is also radiating with the 4bv,  immeasurably.
End of MN 6 is striking.
It refers to cessation as is found in jhana suttas quite commonly. 
For instance there is a passage in the sutta.
He understands thus:
There is this, there is the inferior (the origin of suffering)
there is the superior (the path leading out of suffering)
and beyond there is the escape for this whole field of perception.
(that is nibbana)
and cessation is described as in DN 2 Samannaphala, but Vatthupama sutta, does not refer to 4 jhanas.The beauty of Dhamma exposition in this sutta is fascinating. 
When he knows and sees thus, his mind is liberated from the taint of sensual desire,
from the taint of being, and from the taint of ignorance.
When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: "it is liberated": He understands
"Birth is destroyed,
the holy life has been lived,
what had to be done has been done.
There is no more coming to any state of being; 
This bhikkhu is called the one bathed
with the inner bathing
Reason why Buddha spoke of bathing, Sundarika Bharadvaja was in the audience, he thought bathing in holy rivers cleansed defilements. 
The poem of the sutta ends in 
what need for you to go to Gaya (holy spring)
for any well will be your holy spring
The experts used are from the Ven. BB version. :heart:
PS My gratitude to Ven. Dhammanando, a comment he made transformed my understanding
of the suttas.

confusedlayman
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Re: Jhana

Post by confusedlayman » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:13 am

is sleep paralysis without terror feeling instead sleep paralysis with bliss feeling has anything to do with any meditation?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:10 am

confusedlayman wrote
is sleep paralysis without terror feeling instead sleep paralysis with bliss feeling has anything to do with any meditation?
on another thread you wrote
paralysis definition= body paralysed, mind fully aware and know what's going on but can't move body at will

In that state if you are capable of getting rid of the five hindrances why not? meditation is a stillness, paralyzed body is a still body.
Good night and Sweet dreams dear confusedlayman :heart:

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:08 pm

More one treads the territories of 4 jhanas, more one's attention is grabbed by some reference to one or another aspect of the four buddhist jhanas, without specific identification, dotting the landscape of Theri and Tharagatha.
For instance below is an excerpt from Theragatha under Udayin
Having passed beyond all fetters,
come from the wood of desire, to the non-wood,
delighting in the renunciation of
sensual pleasures. released like
gold from stone
It had  intrigued me, like a riddle that I could not quite solve...
Gold from stone? now I clearly see it is another statement of the 4 jhanas, tightly condensed.
Gold from stone? is the cessation referred to in DN 2, nothing less, nothing more, the state of visankhara pointing to nibbana, atammayata. a sigh of relief!  
An elegant Monday to all!
 
PS 
I do not say that final knowledge is achieved all at once.
On the contrary, final knowledge is achieved by gradual training, by gradual practice, by gradual progress
Buddha in the Middle Length Discourses. :candle:

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:24 pm

Jatukanni sutta inspired me last night, more because I got hold of a translation of Sutta Nipata by Ven. BB the day before, I already had the Saddhatissa version. It is wonderful to have both, Sutta nipata is mostly poems, poems are beautiful, but to make it beautiful, one sacrifices elaboration.  
So as Ven. Thanissaro said in his commentary to Thera and Therigatha, we notice this in Sutta nipata too, but for the practitioner of jhana, this is no issue at all.
The advantage of BB version: it is full of elaborations, to the extent, so too much, but here is the deal. It does elaborate on some things essential too, which I would have missed by reading Saddhatissa alone.
Sutta reads, a synopsis:
You master rule desire like the sun, with heat and light,
rule and control the world of sensations..., 
has fully understood sensual objects, and has abandoned,
overcome, vanquished, overwhelmed, exhausted,
and crushed sensual afflictions
Now the reader must ask "How does one exhaust sensual afflictions?",
the knowledgeable reader knows that that it is only through right concentration (4 jhanas) of the holy path, that this can be done.
It is this right concentration that
sheds the heat and light
Jatukanni further continues,
Sir you are a globe of wisdom!
Tell me how to renounce the world, the world of wearing out and dying
(the world meaning the reach of one's sensosphere)

Master answers:
having recognized the right practice,
practice in conformity, (jhana) full of good behavior, guarding the doors of sense faculties
by the 4 establishments,
4 right kinds of striving,
4 bases for spiritual potency,
5 faculties, 5 powers, 7 factors of enligtnment, noble magga,
as security, as a shelter, as a cavern
May the 4 References of Mind be with you always! :heart:

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:49 am

To deviate from the previous sutta, this morning I made a comment on a different thread.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35501
That comment is related to cessation, which is an aspect of 4th jhana, so I thought of copying the
answer here.
excerpt from Nagara sutta
This consciousness turns back at name-&-form, and goes no farther. It is to this extent that there is birth, aging, death, falling away, & re-arising, i.e., from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness....
We must ask ourselves "How does consciousness come to be?"
It comes to be, because it is fed.
Srilankaputra showed us how consciousness is fed.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Putramansa sutta is all about it, a sutta we must meditate on every second,
if we are bent on terminating Dukkha.
Sutta refers
to how ordinary person constantly makes contact, and create the fuel of feeling to arise
In fact the sutta advices
Be like the skinned cow, do not make contact

But do we listen? NO.
Instead we perpetuate DO every second, by relentlessly making contacts.
How do we stop making contact? how to temporarily stop DO?
Short answer: by practicing buddhist jhanas
.

In the imperturbable state of 4th jhana, contact stops, there is cessation.
There is viveka from the weary rolling of DO,
another name for cessation is nirodha samapathi, or sometimes commentaries call this Arahantaphalasamapatthi

Pulsar's answer will only make sense to those who have made a sincere attempt to practice four jhanas as described in DN 2 Samannapahala sutta.
To others it will only be a concept.
Concepts do not lead to destruction of afflictions.
Buddha continues later, of his awakening
I have attained this path to Awakening, i.e., from the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of consciousness, (i.e. consciousness does not turn back, the topic under discussion) from the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling....
Everyone can experience this briefly,
if they have the patience to meditate as Buddha instructed in DN 2, this taste of cooling.
During the cessation one is so concentrated, so absorbed, it is as if the six-sense media do not exist, or come to a stop. :heart:
PS once I wrote a verse on related matter in DW. Here is a link to the thread.viewtopic.php?f=22&t=34262&sid=a94f3956 ... ccd0040fbd

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:04 pm

A quintessential poem from the Lute sutta, not the exact title? but you get the idea. 
It is a treat to read Ven BB version of the sutta,  with its foot notes, so I share it with you, on this passing weekend.
It is not only the lute that is a poor thing,
but like the so called lute,
whatever else is bound with strings ____ 
all that is just a poor thing
The lute is like the self, poor thing!
hung by the sensory chords, "it" thinks it is a self.

Take the aggregates apart, what do you
have? 

In the simile Buddha offers, how very
clever!
the king cannot find any sound in the broken lute, and therefore loses interest in the instrument.  
Likewise the meditator, exploring the five aggregates (via jhana meditation)
does not see any graspable 'I' or 'mine'
and therefore loses interest, in the aggregates
, i.e. the appearance,  the sensation, the relentless beeping radio signals (sanna)... and so on.
The terms "I' or 'mine' or 'I'm' in regard to form, feeling etc, give
rise to three 'GRIPS',  to hold onto: of views, of craving, and of conceit.

These three
GRIPS
do not exist for the Arahant, his contacts are abolished, they do not lead to volitional formation.

Ven. BB in the foot notes says there is an important difference between the king and the meditator, not conveyed by sutta or the comentator.
In the simile, the king, is looking for the sound of music in the broken lute, he comes across as a fool.

The meditator dissecting the aggregates to dispel the delusion of a 'self' is
coronated by wisdom
.
Purpose of jhana meditation is to, avoid the horrendous tom-foolery of 'I-making'

Excerpts from the sutta 
So too bhikkhus, when one's mind has been secluded,
well subdued, regarding the six bases of contact, it then becomes inwardly steady, settled, unified, and concentrated
clearly the reference is to buddhist jhanas.

To bring the point home The Tathagata continues
Good man, what is making this sound---Ƹ̴Ӂ̴Ʒ---so tantalizing,
so lovely, so intoxicating,
so entrancing,
so enthralling?
Like the sounds of the lute that enticed the king, we are tantalized 
by the sounds of 'I' and 'mine'
When we are engaged in jhana meditation however, we are not so enticed.

Commentary to the sutta ends with a quotation from the great commentary (no longer extant) 
In the beginning integrity is discussed,
In the middle, development of concentration, (i.e. Samma samadhi)
And at the end, Nibbana;
The simile of the lute is thus composed
Thank you for listening to the sounds of a broken lute, 
as a meditator would, and hence being coronated by 
wisdom, momentarily. :heart:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:41 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:04 pm
Likewise the meditator, exploring the five aggregates (via jhana meditation)
does not see any graspable 'I' or 'mine'
..
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.246/en/sujato wrote:In the same way, a mendicant searches for form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness anywhere they might be reborn.
Evameva kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu rūpaṃ samanvesati yāvatā rūpassa gati, vedanaṃ samanvesati yāvatā vedanāya gati, saññaṃ samanvesati yāvatā saññāya gati, saṅkhāre samanvesati yāvatā saṅkhārānaṃ gati, viññāṇaṃ samanvesati yāvatā viññāṇassa gati.
As they search in this way,
Tassa rūpaṃ samanvesato yāvatā rūpassa gati, vedanaṃ samanvesato … pe … saññaṃ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṃ samanvesato yāvatā viññāṇassa gati.

their thoughts of ‘I’ or ‘mine’ or ‘I am’ are no more.” Yampissa taṃ hoti ahanti vā mamanti vā asmīti vā tampi tassa na hotī”ti.
searching, examining khandhas to find ones destination(where attabhava is present). That method of searching examining doesn't involve thoughts of I, mine or I am.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.246/en/sujato wrote:“Mendicants, any monk or nun who has desire or greed or hate or delusion or repulsion come up for sights known by the eye should shield their mind from them:
“Yassa kassaci, bhikkhave, bhikkhussa vā bhikkhuniyā vā cakkhuviññeyyesu rūpesu uppajjeyya chando vā rāgo vā doso vā moho vā paṭighaṃ vāpi cetaso, tato cittaṃ nivāreyya.
‘This path is dangerous and perilous, thorny and tangled; it’s a wrong turn, a bad path, a harmful way.
Sabhayo ceso maggo sappaṭibhayo ca sakaṇṭako ca sagahano ca ummaggo ca kummaggo ca duhitiko ca.
This path is frequented by bad people, not by good people.
Asappurisasevito ceso maggo, na ceso maggo sappurisehi sevito.
desire, hate, repulsion etc obstructs citta, can't make objective choices thus the path will be harmful, thorny, bad etc.

harmful path makes you a memory what you can remember
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.246/en/sujato wrote:As a result, no matter how long they stand or sit in a village or wilderness, that ox fond of crops would never invade that crop again,
Evañhi so, bhikkhave, goṇo kiṭṭhādo gāmagato vā araññagato vā, ṭhānabahulo vā assa nisajjabahulo vā na taṃ kiṭṭhaṃ puna otareyya
— remembering the beating they got earlier. tameva purimaṃ daṇḍasamphassaṃ samanussaranto.
remembering the beating you took earlier subdues citta.

King,
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.246/en/sujato wrote:‘My man, what is making this sound, so arousing, sensuous, intoxicating, infatuating, and captivating?’
‘ambho, kassa nu kho eso saddo evaṃrajanīyo evaṃkamanīyo evaṃmadanīyo evaṃmucchanīyo evambandhanīyo’ti?
..
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.246/en/sujato wrote:Then he’d say, So evaṃ vadeyya:
‘It seems that there’s nothing to this thing called an arched harp or whatever’s called an arched harp! But people waste their time with it, negligent and heedless!’ ‘asatī kirāyaṃ, bho, vīṇā nāma, yathevaṃ yaṃ kiñci vīṇā nāma ettha ca panāyaṃ jano ativelaṃ pamatto palaḷito’ti.
People are following the sound of the harp(to find ones destiny?), it is waste of time, negligent and heedless.

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:31 pm

Auto the above analysis of the sutta is excellent, it complements what Pulsar wrote.

The sound of the harp bewilders and baffles and seduces us,
we who are constantly making contacts, at the outlets to the sensophere. Unless we are guarding
each sense door, every moment, (which is an awfully difficult task), the first requirement in the
four establishments of mindfulness, Doors of the body
How do we seemingly block them, while they are unblocked, so that the seamstress
does not stitch the eye to the object with lust? with mundane thoughts like
"O how I long for you my darling", lyrics heard in almost every popular song on the
radio.
Radio signals haunt us, like the sounds of harp haunting the king, who takes the
harp apart, and finds nada.
The clever meditator secludes himself/herself, to wipe away the sounds that aggregates cling to,
a dissection of feelings, sannna, incessantly arising thought formations, etc.

Wiping away the notion of 'I' or 'mine' is not easy but until we come up with the courage to do so,
we are
swamped by the thoughts of 'I' ness. Poor thing!
How then will we get rid rid of the sorrows that 'I" ness, and 'mine' ness
bring along?
By constant practice of the 37 factors of awakening that includes the four
jhanas.
Thank you dear Auto for helping us out, to gather our thoughts, in
another wholesome formation. A fruitful morning to you! :candle:

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:09 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:31 pm
The sound of the harp bewilders and baffles and seduces us,
we who are constantly making contacts, at the outlets to the sensophere. Unless we are guarding
each sense door, every moment, (which is an awfully difficult task), the first requirement in the
four establishments of mindfulness, Doors of the body
..
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.246/en/sujato wrote:‘It seems that there’s nothing to this thing called an arched harp or whatever’s called an arched harp! But people waste their time with it, negligent and heedless!’ ‘asatī kirāyaṃ, bho, vīṇā nāma, yathevaṃ yaṃ kiñci vīṇā nāma ettha ca panāyaṃ jano ativelaṃ pamatto palaḷito’ti.
Listening preferable music causes dukkha to cease. That is the problem, it shouldn't cause dukkha to cease. All feelings are dukkha, because they are impermanent, you can't relay on mere sound made of harp as a source of your happiness.

People who listen music do it because of nibbidā, disgust with the worldly life and its pleasures. Music listening is the escape from the world.

Basically if you shuffle music then some kind of music works for you, I think that is where the attabhava is present and then need guard the mind to avoid make contact and train this way till you can use perception only to move the heart. In one word you have to find the self in order to get liberated from being dependent on spiritual pleasures.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:31 pm
Wiping away the notion of 'I' or 'mine' is not easy but until we come up with the courage to do so,
we are
i think you need find the destination of your actions, where your attabhava is present in the future/āyatiṃ. By following sense of self maybe..

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