Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
justindesilva
Posts: 2602
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by justindesilva »

SarathW wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm
what this Ven. Gotama is trying to explain is that wholesomeness or unwholesomeness in the act of eating eggs lies on the tanha ( greed) for the taste of the eggs.
Will this apply to other food as well. (say rice)?
Sutta or Vinaya does not say that breaking an egg equal to breaking the first precept Vinaya.
Do they?
This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta." As it is lengthy may I request downloading it to read.
SarathW
Posts: 21244
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by SarathW »

This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta.
Could someone give the Sutta reference and link to Sutta Central?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
justindesilva
Posts: 2602
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by justindesilva »

SarathW wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 am
This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta.
Could someone give the Sutta reference and link to Sutta Central?
Please try Sn 2.2 : Amagandha sutta
binocular
Posts: 8292
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by binocular »

DNS wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 amAnd honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed
That is true only for some traditional ways of producing milk and honey, but not for industrial ones.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by Aloka »

DNS wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 amAnd honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed

Cows need to produce calves in order to be able to give milk. The calves are taken away from their mothers and killed when very young for their meat (veal)

From the website "Compassion in World Farming":
Veal is the meat from calves, mostly pure-bred male dairy calves.

In many countries, including the UK, veal production is closely linked to the dairy industry; male dairy calves cannot produce milk and are often considered unsuitable for beef production.

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm-animals/co ... ves/#start

I used to live next door to a farm years ago and it was a very sad cycle of life for the poor creatures.


.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17192
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by DNS »

binocular wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:36 am
DNS wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 amAnd honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed
That is true only for some traditional ways of producing milk and honey, but not for industrial ones.
Aloka wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:05 am
DNS wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 amAnd honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed
Cows need to produce calves in order to be able to give milk. The calves are taken away from their mothers and killed when very young for their meat (veal)
Yes, I agree with you both. I was providing more of the buddhist perspective on the issue, which has more to do with direct intent. It is not the intent of the egg consumer what happens at the farm beyond the eggs being taken from the hens.

But sometimes we need to look beyond buddhist ethics and consider the big picture. I like Bhante Sujato's essay where he talks of ahimsa in general and asks, "why do what you can get away with?" in terms of our diet choices when a more non-violent alternative is available. So that is why I try to eat vegan as much as possible and lacto-ovo vegetarian only occasionally and no meat at any time.
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6493
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm Sutta or Vinaya does not say that breaking an egg equal to breaking the first precept Vinaya.
Do they?
The Vinaya Piṭaka doesn't mention eggs at all, except as the vehicle for two similes. The judgment of Vinaya scholars regarding eggs is derived inferentially from what the texts say about oviparous generation, abortion and the the circumstances in which meat is or is not allowable.
SarathW wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 am
This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta.
Could someone give the Sutta reference and link to Sutta Central?
The Amagandha Sutta is irrelevant, for it's merely about the consumption of meat not being a defilement; it's not about killing animals for meat or cooking eggs.

Sinhala
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/si/snp2.2

English
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/snp2.2
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
SarathW
Posts: 21244
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by SarathW »

(of an animal) producing young by means of eggs which are hatched after they have been laid by the parent, as in birds.

Thank you, Bhante.
Does it appear that your opinion is that prohibition of eggs comming from Vinaya indirectly?
How then the fertilised and unfertilised egg idea came from?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
justindesilva
Posts: 2602
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by justindesilva »

Dhammanando wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm
SarathW wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm Sutta or Vinaya does not say that breaking an egg equal to breaking the first precept Vinaya.
Do they?
The Vinaya Piṭaka doesn't mention eggs at all, except as the vehicle for two similes. The judgment of Vinaya scholars regarding eggs is derived inferentially from what the texts say about oviparous generation, abortion and the the circumstances in which meat is or is not allowable.

The Amagandha Sutta is irrelevant, for it's merely about the consumption of meat not being a defilement; it's not about killing animals for meat or cooking eggs.

Sinhala
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/si/snp2.2

English
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/snp2.2
Please note that in 4th para of amagandha sutta is written that destroying living beings etc is a defilement , and is beyond eating meat .
It has to be verified however whether eggs are counted as a living being or not. There are arguments for and agsinst . Yet the egg consists of a flesh or gel with its initial nervous system. Just as a baby getting out from the womb the chick coming out of the shell starts breathing oxygen giving its life.
Srilankaputra
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 am
Location: Sri Lanka

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by Srilankaputra »

SarathW wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:05 am
chownah wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:32 pm
binocular wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:04 am
Sorry for bringing this up again. But I would like to apologise since I was the originator of any conflict in this thread. I think i understand my error. :anjali: :anjali: :anjali:

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by sentinel »

I see that the question is , why don't Buddha allows vegetarianism , that would solve the case .
I don't think Buddha were blinded to actually see the so called bad recycling in consumption and raising the livestock .
You always gain by giving
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17192
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by DNS »

sentinel wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:04 am I see that the question is , why don't Buddha allows vegetarianism , that would solve the case .
I don't think Buddha were blinded to actually see the so called bad recycling in consumption and raising the livestock .
The Buddha does allow it. One can be a vegetarian and Buddhist. The difference is that he doesn't require it.

See the great vegetarian debate:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by sentinel »

DNS wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:15 am
sentinel wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:04 am I see that the question is , why don't Buddha allows vegetarianism , that would solve the case .
I don't think Buddha were blinded to actually see the so called bad recycling in consumption and raising the livestock .
The Buddha does allow it. One can be a vegetarian and Buddhist. The difference is that he doesn't require it.

See the great vegetarian debate:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229
Hi Dns ,

I supposed Buddha should ask the disciples to become vegetarian , he surely know the Risks there for sentient beings of getting slaughter because of his disciples consumption .
You always gain by giving
Post Reply