Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Pulsar
Posts: 333
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 pm

An excerpt from SN 45.4 The Brahmin
In this sutta we find clear evidence that Right concentration in the eightfold path
is referring to the Four Rupa Jhanas, which is purely Buddha's innovation. An excerpt
from the sutta
“It is possible, Ānanda,” said the Blessed One. “That is a synonym for this very same noble eightfold path: ‘sublime vehicle,’ ‘Dhamma-vehicle,’ ‘unexcelled victory in battle.’”
“Right view, Ānanda, when developed & pursued, has the subduing of passion as its end-point, the subduing of aversion as its end-point, the subduing of delusion as its end-point
“Right resolve… Right speech… Right action… Right livelihood… Right effort… Right mindfulness… Right concentration, when developed & pursued, has the subduing of passion as its end-point, the subduing of aversion as its end-point, the subduing of delusion as its end-point.
“It is by this sequence of reasons that one can know how that is a synonym for this very same noble eightfold path:
‘sublime vehicle,’ ‘Dhamma-vehicle,’ ‘unexcelled victory in battle.’”
That is what the Blessed One said. Having said that, the One Well-Gone, the Teacher, said further:
One with the qualities
of conviction & discernment
always yoked to its shaft,
shame its pole, the heart its yoke-tie,
mindfulness the protective charioteer,
virtue the chariot-accessories,
jhāna the axle
persistence the wheels,
equanimity the balance of the yoke,
hungerless-ness its upholstery,
non-ill will, harmlessness, & seclusion its weapons,
patience its armor & shield:
It rolls to security from bondage.
Coming into play
from within oneself:
the sublime vehicle unsurpassed.
They, the enlightened, leave the world.
They, absolutely, win victory. :candle:

Pulsar
Posts: 333
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:28 am

The four rupa jhanas are not isolated practices.
  • There is a reciprocity and essential connection between the attainment of the jhanas and the development of seven awakening factors, for instance.
  • A Clear correlation exists between the jhanas and the gradual maturity of the practice of satipatthana.
  • when one practices the rupa jhanas, it also leads to a gradual improvement of sila or virtue.
None of the factors that lead to awakening exists in isolation of each other. :candle:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:56 pm

why there is more than 1 jhana?

Pulsar
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:25 pm

Auto wrote
why there is more than 1 jhana?
Are you referring to Rupa jhanas or Arupa jhanas? Your question is not clear. Are you familiar with the
Rupa jhanas, the thread is a discussion of Rupa jhanas. :candle:

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:35 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:25 pm
Auto wrote
why there is more than 1 jhana?
Are you referring to Rupa jhanas or Arupa jhanas? Your question is not clear. Are you familiar with the
Rupa jhanas, the thread is a discussion of Rupa jhanas. :candle:
why isn't there only 1 jhana?

Srilankaputra
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Location: Sri Lanka

Re: Jhana

Post by Srilankaputra » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:16 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 pm
jhāna the axle
The following quotes are not from buddhism. But thought i'd share.
Thirty spokes meet in the hub,
but the empty space between them
is the essence of the wheel.
Stay at the centre
In order to eliminate the negative influences, simply ignore them
In meditation, go deep in the heart
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:02 am

About the spokes that meet in the hub, Srilankaputra wrote
Stay at the centre
In order to eliminate the negative influences, simply ignore them
In meditation, go deep in the heart
Thank you for those non-buddhist words of wisdom. :candle:

Pulsar
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:06 pm

Srilankaputra here is a description of jhanas, from Parayanavagga of sutta nipata, a conversation between Buddha and Udaya. These verses are reported to be the oldest parts of the canon.
The Question of Udaya
Udaya: To the meditator seated passionless, done his duty, without asavas, who has gone to the far shore of all phenomena, tell me the deliverance by knowledge, the splitting of ignorance
Buddha:The abandonment of both desires for sensual pleasures and grief, thrusting away of sloth, by warding off misbehavior, one restrains remorse.
Purified by indifference (equanimity) and mindfulness, preceded by examination of mental states- This is Release by knowledge. This is splitting of ignorance
Udaya: What is the bond of the world? What is its investigation?
By the giving up of what do you come to Deathless?
Buddha: The world is bound by pleasure. Speculation is its investigation. By th leaving of desire, one is cooled.
Udaya: 'I have come with these questions, Master, and I hope you will answer one more' said Udaya. 'How does the mindful wanderer bring his mind flow to an end? How does the consciousness cease for the thoughtful wanderer?'
The Master replied: If a person does not enjoy sensation, inwardly, and outwardly, for that thoughtful one consciousness ceases


This is the simplest explanation of cessation I have found in the canon.

'Abandonment of both desire for sensual pleasures, said the blessed one to Udayi, and Discontent and the dispelling of sloth and worry' is a preparation for jhana.
Splitting of ignorance is what 4th Jhana is about
These verses illustrate although in a different formulation the incipient, the process of jhanas from giving up of nivarana, the role of upekkha and sati.
Fruit of Arahantship is based on the 4th jhana, which is suggested by the line upekkhasatisamsuddham, echoing the stock formula for the fourth jhana. (BB foot notes)
Interestingly this verse is mentioned in a teaching to Sariputta on 4th jhana in Anguttara Nikaya. The scholars think this shows the antiquity of the Parayanavagga, of Sutta Nipata :candle:
AN 3.33 https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN3_33.html

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:59 am

In the questions of Udaya in the parayanavagga he asks Buddha
'How does the mindful wanderer bring his mind flow to an end?
How does the consciousness cease for the thoughtful wanderer
The question is about cessation, after many long nights and days, now I know
the entire Parayanavagga, the oldest part of the canon, was about development
of the 4 jhanas, and the things that can be accomplished therein.
:heart:

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:36 am

This morning I will bring you a simplified version of second jhana, just because
I have a habit of simplifying all things, to make stuff easily accessible. Buddha has said
that the point of practice is to be able to access this kind of quiescence at a moment's
notice.
Here is a description of second jhana modified for sake of simplicity. Imagine you are at the end of first
jhana, I had given a simplified version of that before.
I will begin this one, like this. When thinking and reflection are left behind,
an inner calm settles, becoming one with
heart, a state of joyfulness.
The happiness originated in first jhana remains, even though thoughts (vitaka) and reflections (vicara) are no more. Th difference is, current happiness originates from a deeper concentration, a greater samadhi. Equanimity is enhanced, although not predominant.
The internal generation of happiness is like this: Simile from the discourses of the Buddha.

Mind has a confidence, and a singleness that combines with rapture and pleasure born of concentration. The meditator makes this surge of happiness, drench, steep, fill, and pervade her body, there is no part of her body un-pervaded by the rapture and pleasure born of concentration.
Just as though there was a lake at the summit of a mountain, whose waters well up from below, and it had no inflow from any direction, rain, does not replenish this body of water.
The coolness welling up from within the lake would
drench, steep, fill, and pervade the lake
. There would be no part of the lake unpervaded by this coolness. Similarly the meditator makes the rapture and pleasure born of concentration drench steep, fill, and pervade this body. There is no part of the body of meditator unpervaded by the rapture and pleasure born of concentration
PS Pulsar will refer to second jhana more in the coming days. Thank you for reading. :heart:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:00 pm

by not indulging in sensual pleasures you still need go through the spokes there like if you have had gone through the sensual actions.

"fetters" samyojana. You can't go from point A to point B without doing something, in kāmāvacara you use sensual actions in person. liberation is when you not depend on going through it personally so that you don't have to descend or appear in these worlds.

jhana involves complicated system of emotions, mind based feelings with their underlying tendencies. If you give up copulation you still need go through these parts involved in body in a fine material layer. During O-gasm there will descend something from the brain so you still need get that to descend when renouncing these activities and such activities mostly are already mastered by beings generated in 2nd jhana.

So you can claim jhana and free and understanding of there is no self, whatever but you still depend on many many actions what require execution in person on sensual planes for to get experience and tastes for to get mental impressions what carry on from life to life. And how you get them done is easy or hard, maybe you need pass some time being stupid etc to get experience and understanding what you otherwise can't get in your current development state of a mind.

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:47 am

The second jhana as I presented above with a metaphor is very doable as you see. I am sure many of you have even experienced this in your more pristine moods.
If you do not labour over the terminology, and just let it be, the
first two jhanas, can be experienced in every day life, maybe once a month, or once in a lifetime. What is time?, when time becomes timeless?
The second jhana is also called "Noble silence" (ariya tunhibhava), a technical code term for the second jhana
May the triple gem reside in your heart, as treasures hidden or revealed. :heart:

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:28 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:47 am
The second jhana as I presented above with a metaphor is very doable as you see. I am sure many of you have even experienced this in your more pristine moods.
If you do not labour over the terminology, and just let it be, the
first two jhanas, can be experienced in every day life, maybe once a month, or once in a lifetime. What is time?, when time becomes timeless?
The second jhana is also called "Noble silence" (ariya tunhibhava), a technical code term for the second jhana
May the triple gem reside in your heart, as treasures hidden or revealed. :heart:
What is doable and everyone can releate is discipline as of enduring the suffering what comes from not doing things what you want to do and know when you would do would just increase craving for better and better luxuries.

staying calm alone doesn't end this effort induced bad state of going against the stream, you need know that this bad feeling is impermanent by your own experience.

jhana has too many variables and descriptions you can relate to humungus amount of states to it. But nothing is clear cut as saying no to sniffing heroin.

and there will arise energy, a pastelike substance after defeating urge. That energy is packed together using your own will so that it will return to its original place in the body, that will cause pleasant sensations.

but you can't do it in one stretch since there is no energy felt or anything remotely this, first times there is blast, huge mindblowing flashing spiritual experiences. That what peeps call energy is not that energy, it won't appear unless within same day you need do all the processes the sleep will reset, its gradual you never be that fast and purified to reach that far in the beginning and so much more, so hold on before you stat seriously claim jhana since there actually are humungus amount of states and the day where you can get energy it is still ghostly, as of it isn't real, real energy is what actually is also in this reality so that is just beginning even if you get that far.

Short what you describe for spiritual enthusiasts who is also alchemic its nothing so maybe try to understand where the scepticism is coming.


*i'm aware that you have said you have done sacrifices in daily life..perhaps you have invested more time to read Sutta or sit in calm meditation..but is it directly dealing with the sensations what arise?
also you have said you defeat suffering with jhana, (daily?)

im in awe. Since you rejected channels and such practice, so what exactly your practice results in?

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