What is nirvana/heaven?

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user99
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What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by user99 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:41 pm

Did buddha describe heaven in any way in case of yes how did he describe heaven?

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:45 pm

The Thirty-one Planes of Existence

& the Beyond
Scattered throughout the suttas are references to as many as thirty-one distinct "planes" or "realms" of existence into which beings can be reborn during their long wandering through samsara. These range from the extraordinarily grim and painful hell realms all the way up to the most exquisitely refined and blissful heaven realms.
Beings in heaven enjoy varying degrees of jhanic bliss.

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:13 pm

Nirvana:

It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nirvana, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44

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Volo
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Volo » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:27 pm

Nibbāna:
Ud 1.10 wrote:Where water, earth,
fire, & wind
have no footing:
There the stars don't shine,
the sun isn't visible.
There the moon doesn't appear.
There darkness is not found.

And when a sage,
a brahman through sagacity,
has realized [this] for himself,
then from form & formless,
from bliss & pain,
he is freed.
Also:
SN 43.14-43 wrote:the truth …. the far shore … the subtle … the very difficult to see … the unaging … the stable … the undisintegrating … the unmanifest … the unproliferated… the peaceful … the deathless … the sublime … the auspicious … the secure …. the destruction of craving … the wonderful … the amazing … the unailing … the unailing state … Nibbāna … the unafflicted … dispassion … purity … freedom … the unadhesive … the island ... the shelter … the asylum … the refuge …

Sacca, Pāra, Nipuṇa, Sududdasa, Ajara, Dhuva, Apalokita, Anidassana, Nippapañca, Santa, Amata, Paṇita, Siva, Khema, Taṇhakkhaya, Acchariya, Abbhuta, Anītika, Anītikadhamma, Nibbāna, Abyāpajjha, Virāga, Suddhi, Mutti, Anālaya, Dīpa, Leṇa, Tāṇa, Saraṇa.

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salayatananirodha
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by salayatananirodha » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:24 pm

heaven is a conditioned state of being, nibbāna is unconditioned. in heaven, contacts are usually pleasant, nibbāna is the cessation of contact
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

inyenzi
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by inyenzi » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:03 am

It is the end of this life, with no new becoming. Parinibbana is indistinguishable from the way an atheist, scientific materialist views biological death. This life is over, all that remains is the body. There is nothing further for your consciousness (i.e. it doesn't go into some heavenly or euphoric realm).
SN 12.51 wrote:“Suppose, bhikkhus, a man would remove a hot clay pot from a potter’s kiln and set it on smooth ground: its heat would be dissipated right there and potsherds would be left. So too, when he feels a feeling terminating with the body … terminating with life…. He understands: ‘With the breakup of the body, following the exhaustion of life, all that is felt, not being delighted in, will become cool right here; mere bodily remains will be left.’ “What do you think, bhikkhus, can a bhikkhu whose taints are destroyed generate a meritorious volitional formation, or a demeritorious volitional formation, or an imperturbable volitional formation?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“When there are utterly no volitional formations, with the cessation of volitional formations, would consciousness be discerned?” “No, venerable sir.”

“When there is utterly no consciousness, with the cessation of consciousness, would name-and-form be discerned?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“When there is utterly no name-and-form … no six sense bases … … no contact … no feeling … no craving … no clinging … no existence … no birth, with the cessation of birth, would aging-and-death be discerned?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Good, good, bhikkhus! It is exactly so and not otherwise! Place faith in me about this, bhikkhus, resolve on this. Be free from perplexity and doubt about this. Just this is the end of suffering.”
Last edited by inyenzi on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grigoris
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:17 am

salayatananirodha wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:24 pm
...nibbāna is the cessation of contact
Source?
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:54 am

inyenzi wrote: There is nothing further for your consciousness
that's called annihilation ism
inyenzi wrote:doesn't go into some heavenly or euphoric realm
wrong

inyenzi
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by inyenzi » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:16 pm

cappuccino wrote:that's called annihilation ism
Annihilationism is the belief that there exists an atman, which is destroyed at death. The cessation of an experience which is annata, is not annihilationism, since there exists nothing to be annihilated.

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:05 am

inyenzi wrote:
cappuccino wrote:that's called annihilation ism
Annihilationism is the belief that there exists an atman, which is destroyed at death. The cessation of an experience which is anattā, is not annihilationism, since there exists nothing to be annihilated.
the doctrine of "non-self", that there is no unchanging, permanent self

you take it too far……

On Self, No Self, and Not-self

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:19 am

unchanging self is extreme

no self is extreme

between extremes, is the middle way

inyenzi
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by inyenzi » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:46 am

cappuccino wrote:unchanging self is extreme

no self is extreme

between extremes, is the middle way
Which involves what, exactly? A changing self, that nevertheless persists on after death in an unconditioned heavenly realm? Sounds like a craving for further existence.

On my reading of the suttas, it seems clear that parinibbana is just the 5 aggregates (which are not self) coming to an end.

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:38 pm

inyenzi wrote: On my reading of the suttas, it seems clear that parinibbana is just the 5 aggregates (which are not self) coming to an end.
If I — being asked by Vacchagotta the wanderer if there is no self — were to answer that there is no self, that would be conforming with those brahmans & contemplatives who are exponents of annihilationism [the view that death is the annihilation of consciousness].
Ananda Sutta: To Ananda

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Grigoris
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:18 pm

inyenzi wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:46 am
Which involves what, exactly? A changing self, that nevertheless persists on after death in an unconditioned heavenly realm
What is this unconditioned heavenly realm you are talking about?
Sounds like a craving for further existence.
Rebirth in a Deva realm IS fueled by a craving for further existence.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:42 pm

Grigoris wrote: What is this unconditioned heavenly realm you are talking about?
heavenly realms are conditioned, Nirvana realm is unconditioned

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