First of all the new sutta you present, SN 14.11 is best ignored, until I have the time to explain why. We may have to revisit MN 128 in order to do this, it is complicated.
MN 44 that you introduced earlier, is a must study sutta, when carefully read, it is a goldmine.
I will point out why I say this, but these things take time, but then you might understand it without another's help also, or have you already understood it? If so I have a question for you.
Once you reply I will ask.
You dismissed MN 121, saying it is too easy, but it is a gem of a sutta, Buddha had a reason for presenting jhana (8th factor of Path in various ways) for people's receptivities are different.
We must not dismiss the wisdom of the Buddha. If there are errors in transmission of the canon, that is not Buddha's fault. The compilers were human, hence many errors, and corruptions are found.
You wrote
possible,i see you getting more technical in what you write:
Pulsar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:32 am
Stuff like infinite consciousness, and infinite space automatically happens at the peak of 4th Rupa jhana.
I think you are making fun of the simplicity of my language. The simplicity is intentional. I want folks, not to be intimidated by hifalutin words used in the commentaries often.
Some people are put off by words. You seem to be a Pali expert, I try not to use Pali unless it is essential, English as poor as it is, is the only way those who have not studied Pali
communicate. However words like Dukkha, sukkha, suññatā, asava, abhisankarothi. sacittapariyodapanam etc. are a must, it is not a big deal to remember these.
You ask whether jhana I follow is right. I learnt jhana initially by reading Sammanphala sutta.
Read it for yourself
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
a masterpiece of the canon. Its section on the 4 rupa jhanas are invaluable. The way it is explained to a king.
Description of first jhana reads as follows.
Just to read it is heart warming. You also spoke of brahma worlds familiar to the folks of DW. The only brahma world Pulsar knows is what he/she witnesses, when he engages in Jhana. The Buddha himself said any other brahma world one thinks of is only a mere mortal mental proliferation, or imagination, according to Kajjaniya sutta, i.e. abhisankharoti.Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder ........, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates, this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal" A beautiful description
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
If you read it carefully, you get the feeling that these concepts, if not realized only exists in one's mind, mental proliferations that chews one up. However, these are used as metaphors, in Sutta telling. Also temporary realizatiions within jhanas are sometimes compared to brahma worlds, the clarity of mind, bliss, peacefulness.
Meanwhile pl give this a read, DN 2 Samannaphala Sutta; the fruits of the Contemplative life, its section on 4 jhanas is very pertinent, Of course one finds elaborations here and there, as is typical of many suttas.
I will revisit this https://suttacentral.net/sn14.11/en/sujato later, not my sutta of choice when discussing sense bases/ayatana.
You wrote at the end
How do the peeps know of the brahma worlds? Have they realized those, through jhana, or is it just pure frivolous chat? Does rebirth really end at brahma world? One can experience brahma and deva worlds temporarily through jhana, or else one has to die to know, and then who will return to tell us? There is a sutta where Buddha makes fun of folks who speak of people going to heaven after death etc, only if I can find it!i think peeps have told you that when you get to the brahma realm there is possible no coming back to this existence, rebirth ended.
Take care dear Auto.