jataka tales

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
form
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

jataka tales

Post by form » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:18 am

Can their storylines be taken seriously?

justindesilva
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: jataka tales

Post by justindesilva » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:58 am

form wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:18 am
Can their storylines be taken seriously?
A renownedsychiatrist in sri lanka ( who is expired now)
and a buddhist, Dr. Harishchandra, wrote a thesis on the psychiatrict values of the Jataka stories giving recognition to Jataka stories.
This proves that their storylines can be taken seriously.

form
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: jataka tales

Post by form » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:07 am

justindesilva wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:58 am
form wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:18 am
Can their storylines be taken seriously?
A renownedsychiatrist in sri lanka ( who is expired now)
and a buddhist, Dr. Harishchandra, wrote a thesis on the psychiatrict values of the Jataka stories giving recognition to Jataka stories.
This proves that their storylines can be taken seriously.
Do u mean the lessons behind the stories or the storylines? I agree the lessons are very good, but some of the stories details are absurb like different animals are friends and talking to each others.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2903
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: jataka tales

Post by cappuccino » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:30 am

Tolkien called mythology a echo of the truth

User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: jataka tales

Post by JamesTheGiant » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:34 am

I know a monk, who has TWO medical degrees and was a pediatric specialist in an exclusive USA hospital. He believes the jatakas are the literal truth. So they can be taken seriously. But you don't have to. The important part is the message of each tale, they are "Morality Tales" and don't need to be factually true to be of value.

form
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: jataka tales

Post by form » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:52 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:34 am
I know a monk, who has TWO medical degrees and was a pediatric specialist in an exclusive USA hospital. He believes the jatakas are the literal truth. So they can be taken seriously. But you don't have to. The important part is the message of each tale, they are "Morality Tales" and don't need to be factually true to be of value.
Thanks for sharing. Can u ask him why didn't we see nagas and garudas around us?

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: jataka tales

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:31 pm

We have not developed concentration or mystic powers like those monks of the Buddha's time.

Anuruddha, Moggallāna and others were renowned for their powers. Even in the Buddha's time other monks had no such powers.

With the power of microscopes scientists can see many living things that are invisible to the naked eye.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

User avatar
Antaradhana
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:56 pm
Location: Saratov, Russia

Re: jataka tales

Post by Antaradhana » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:36 pm

form wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:18 am
Can their storylines be taken seriously?
1. The early part of Jataka is only stanzas.
2. Even the stanzas of most Jataka hardly belong to the Buddha, most likely these are later writings.
3. All the allegations that this was in the past the Bodhisatta or one of his students are contained precisely in the prose commentary, which entered the Canon together with the stanzas.
4. Even assuming that a certain number of verse stanzas were uttered by the Buddha himself, then without fictional stories from the comments - these are just instructive parables that have no direct meaning.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 6218
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: jataka tales

Post by Aloka » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:10 pm

.

This is a comment from Bhikkhu Sujato in a topic at Sutta Central forum "On the Authenticity of the Jatakas":

The Jatakas are best regarded as folk tales and legends, and are unlikely to have anything to do with the Buddha’s past lives. While the Buddha regularly spoke of past lives in a general sense, it seems that he didn’t tell stories from them. Or at least, not that were passed down

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/on ... takas/2987

:anjali:

.

santa100
Posts: 3729
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: jataka tales

Post by santa100 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:26 pm

some of the stories details are absurb like different animals are friends and talking to each others.
Well, it'd only be "absurd" only if it has been proven for a fact and beyond any shadow of doubt that animals are absolutely 100% unable to communicate with one another.
form wrote:Can their story lines be taken seriously?
A more important question would be what would one apply/implement based on the moral of the story (whether it was a historical fact or not).

form
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: jataka tales

Post by form » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:55 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:31 pm
We have not developed concentration or mystic powers like those monks of the Buddha's time.

Anuruddha, Moggallāna and others were renowned for their powers. Even in the Buddha's time other monks had no such powers.

With the power of microscopes scientists can see many living things that are invisible to the naked eye.
Interesting point regarding psychic power. Just a thought, what about that monk that was reprimanded by the Buddha for displaying his supernormal power in public to get a bowl from a very high pole? Did he also has the other ability to see and understand beings of other realms?

form
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: jataka tales

Post by form » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:03 pm

Antaradhana wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:36 pm
form wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:18 am
Can their storylines be taken seriously?
1. The early part of Jataka is only stanzas.
2. Even the stanzas of most Jataka hardly belong to the Buddha, most likely these are later writings.
3. All the allegations that this was in the past the Bodhisatta or one of his students are contained precisely in the prose commentary, which entered the Canon together with the stanzas.
4. Even assuming that a certain number of verse stanzas were uttered by the Buddha himself, then without fictional stories from the comments - these are just instructive parables that have no direct meaning.
One of the reason why I brought out this thread is because I am studying suttanipata currently and at the same time looking at supposingly earlier suttas. I am surprised to find that info on marks of a great man were considered very early materials that also appears in SN, as well as MN. And looking at Wiki, Jataka is said to be very early creation as well.

sakyan
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: jataka tales

Post by sakyan » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:28 am

form wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:18 am
Can their storylines be taken seriously?
Yes.

Jatakas are taught by the Buddha just like any sutta and its final goal is to make beings mend their faulty ways and seek nibbana.

Whatever happens a Buddha never tells lies, the Buddha always speaks the truth.

User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: jataka tales

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:34 am

form wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:03 pm
And looking at Wiki, Jataka is said to be very early creation as well.
Yes, many of the Jataka stories are also found in pre-Buddhist stories, in vedas and things before the time of the Buddha. I seem to remember reading at least 30% are not original to Buddhism.

form
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: jataka tales

Post by form » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:50 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:34 am
form wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:03 pm
And looking at Wiki, Jataka is said to be very early creation as well.
Yes, many of the Jataka stories are also found in pre-Buddhist stories, in vedas and things before the time of the Buddha. I seem to remember reading at least 30% are not original to Buddhism.
I saw in wiki it has a story called rabbit in the moon. So coincidental that Chinese myth also have that and I think way before Buddhism spread to China.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: retrofuturist, Yahoo [Bot] and 123 guests