Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
polo
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by polo » Thu May 23, 2019 9:51 am

Volo wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:45 am
So, you want to engage in sexual intercourse without emitting semen. I think this should be possible. But what does retention of semen have to do with elimination of sexual desire?
MN 22 wrote:“Bhikkhus, that one can engage in sensual pleasures without sensual desires, without perceptions of sensual desire, without thoughts of sensual desire — that is impossible.
Yes Volo, this is exactly what I was wondering. May be the whole subject is quite muddle up so I don't get the clear picture. Anyone can tell me what exactly it is all about?
Well, I am going to reply and say something on this topic which I find quite interesting. But I am not sure what I am going to say is the same thing still it is in some ways related. So please read my comment and please discuss if you have opinions or objections. Or perhaps even like to try it out.

polo
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by polo » Thu May 23, 2019 10:50 am

form wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:54 am
It is best not to get married or even have a girlfriend, if u want to seriously practice meditation. The type of semen retention technique u mentioned is a technique of a particular taoist school. I am not surprised that certain Tibetan Buddhism schools have similar concepts. Such technique do not lead to high level spiritual development. U can look at books and videos of mantak chia if u are interested in such things.
Yes, yes, yes, finally I come across a comment that makes sense . There is something in this kind of sex that makes it kind of mystifying. With the Taoist and Tibetan Buddhism all thrown in , well, what can I say. Is it Mambo Jambo?

polo
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by polo » Thu May 23, 2019 1:31 pm

I find this topic rather interesting because sex is involved. When sex is involved it is always interesting.
I am of Asian descent and even as a kid I had heard about this "Semen Retention Sex practice". If you live in certain parts of Asia and among the Chinese who are not western influenced that means not educated in English or French or in anyway influenced by western culture you will find some of them do know about this "Semen Retention Sex Practice". By the way western educated Chinese have no interest in this subject, well, most of them don't bother themselves with this subject.
I heard about this at a very young age (about 11 or 12) and also around that age I saw a chinese martial art movie about this practice. You may wonder what does Chinese martial art has to do with this "Semen Retention Sex Practice?". It does have a lot to do with martial art because in ancient China the best martial art masters (usual very old men) with snow white hair in topknot they were the ones who practice Taoism as well as martial art.
They are the ones who have achieved the highest level in Chinese martial art. You could see that they are usually in their 70s or even 90s yet they move with such smooth agility it will amaze you. When they perform the sword fights (with opponents) you will see they are no doubt the master of the highest level. Even at 50s you would have difficulties jumping about but these masters(in their 70s) can perform impossible movements. That shows their bodies must be in very tip top condition.
In ancient days these martial art masters believed that if they practice "Semen Retention Sex Practice" they could achieve a longer life span. I don't know if those masters of martial today still believe this practice could prolong their life span. In the old days they certainly did that was why they wrote books about it and practiced it.
Many people in the western hemisphere today know about the Chinese theory of "Yin and Yang" well, fundamentally the opposing forces of Male and Female element in nature.
Since those ancient chinese martial art masters had achieved very high standard in their martial art they wanted to achieve the ultimate. If they achieved that they would have a much much longer life span and would never become sick. And that is the "Semen Retention Sex Practice".
To achieve that end they need a lady partner who is also well verse in this practice. So what the couple do is they perform sexual intercourse without ejaculation. Those figures that you see in many tibetan antiques of a man and woman in embrace and naked they are in the intercourse position for this practice of "Semen Retention Sex Practice".
I believe it has a lot to do with transcending the sexual climax to get in touch with the cosmic essence. When the penis is introduced into the vagina the couple both go into extreme concentration, it is this special concentration ability that could bypass the sexual pleasure. The male must maintain turgidity without ejaculation otherwise all effort would be wasted. The female also must not reach orgasm at all.
The male and female force will circulated within their bodies going from one body to the other, this finely tune male and female force now freely flow giving both the benefits of the complete unit of Yin and Yang. This not only prolong their life span it gives massive dose of protection against many illnesses. Their skins look soft and supple, they hardly age, for they have harness the cosmic essence. In the martial art movie that I saw when I was a kid the lady and the man were totally naked, they sat facing each other in the meditation posture (cross legs) and they both have palms touching each other, they were going into the first stage of preparation before the insertion of the penis into the vagina. Of course this later part was not shown in the movie. It was an interesting movie that was. Fascinating.
I really believe it works provided you get the correct instructions and understood very clearly the whole subtle theory and follow instructions to the letter.
I really would like to try it out. I need to find a lady who is also interested, the lady is indispensable. And I need to get the book or instructions may be I should visit Tibet to get some instructions. What do members of this forum think? I will give the outcome here on this forum. Well, at least you could get the idea of how I feel after months of practice. Oh no misunderstanding here folks, it is quite a wholesome thing to do. It is not about sex, that is for sure. It is about transcending the sex act into the cosmic and beyond. Using the sex act as a vehicle to reach the cosmic sphere.
If you think the sex act is dirty or bad then you have a unwholesome attitude towards sex, Buddha didn't allow sex because it interfere with achieving the Jhanas. As far as Buddha is concerned for married couple you do what is best in the circumstances. Whether you should have less sex or no sex it's your decision.

polo
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by polo » Thu May 23, 2019 2:05 pm

Ceisiwr wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:06 am
squizzlebizzle wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:02 am
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:32 am
Do you mean vaginal sex within marriage being ok and nothing else?
I don't entirely understand your question

Do you mean that only ejaculating during sex with a wife is permissible or that sex should be without ejaculation at all? I’m struggling to understand your post.

It's so funny, I keep laughing when I read your comment. Especially the last bit , "I'm struggling to understand your post". Anything to do with sex is always difficult to understand isn't it? Try to ask my lady partner and I am sure I will be confused.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 23, 2019 2:13 pm

polo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:05 pm
Ceisiwr wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:06 am
squizzlebizzle wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:02 am


I don't entirely understand your question

Do you mean that only ejaculating during sex with a wife is permissible or that sex should be without ejaculation at all? I’m struggling to understand your post.

It's so funny, I keep laughing when I read your comment. Especially the last bit , "I'm struggling to understand your post". Anything to do with sex is always difficult to understand isn't it? Try to ask my lady partner and I am sure I will be confused.

Yeah I completely misread the OP. I think I had it confused with another topic at the time, although I don't find sex all that confusing.

form
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by form » Thu May 23, 2019 5:11 pm

polo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:50 am
form wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:54 am
It is best not to get married or even have a girlfriend, if u want to seriously practice meditation. The type of semen retention technique u mentioned is a technique of a particular taoist school. I am not surprised that certain Tibetan Buddhism schools have similar concepts. Such technique do not lead to high level spiritual development. U can look at books and videos of mantak chia if u are interested in such things.
Yes, yes, yes, finally I come across a comment that makes sense . There is something in this kind of sex that makes it kind of mystifying. With the Taoist and Tibetan Buddhism all thrown in , well, what can I say. Is it Mambo Jambo?
There are some accounts in the suttas regarding using orgasm to add meditation, this is said to be inferior by the buddha. Celibracy requurement for ultimate meditation progress mentioned in the suttas should be viewed as a seperate thing.

auto
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by auto » Fri May 24, 2019 11:47 am

polo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:31 pm
The male must maintain turgidity without ejaculation otherwise all effort would be wasted. The female also must not reach orgasm at all.
really?

orgasm is what turns the energy into a form what will replete the sense organs with five strings of sensuality, so that you could get rid of hindrances and that period where you get rid of hindrances is what defines you where you go and what you do, so you should want to stay in seclusion so you could notice the urges to turn energies further..

the period where you do these practices are post O-gasm period. Since your senses are replete then you just need arouse subtle energies and turn them back or pull back from seminal duct and second time empty the pool of subtle energy what is at the root of seminal duct somewhere.

The intensity or what the practice look like, in your example case is literal..its just for to arouse not to joke around.

remember there is nocturnal O-gasms, you will be sent down to sensual world replete with sensuality again and again..in respect to nocturnal happening your daily life is always post O-gasm.
According to above then the thought what is sleep and is it post or pre daily waking state seem legit.

So in some sort you are correct that you need stop having O-gasm, but the context here seem doesn't take into account much other than horny energy what begs you to have release and if you do daily life O'gasm you will have again that same horny energy arousal period coming..and just avoiding having O-gasm is not an escape either.


i'm aware you talk other things too like:
polo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:31 pm
I believe it has a lot to do with transcending the sexual climax to get in touch with the cosmic essence.
polo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:31 pm
When the penis is introduced into the vagina the couple both go into extreme concentration, it is this special concentration ability that could bypass the sexual pleasure.
maybe but do celibacy and get rid of hindrances, get jhanas.

celibacy makes you highly sensitive and you get aroused super easy(but only after you are sent down[period where you are lost in thought and coming out of it]) without need of actual threat(as having actual union with other sex), imo its the risk of failure, playing with fire in gas station what is the initiator or arousing factor of the cold energy in fire with what you cease pleasant energies.

Otherwords what you need is anxiety and fear and pain, these kind of energies.. without escaping them by O-gasm, it is i think release by non-clinging(non-clinging is after you comprehend dhamma(which i think is you have mastered this by using mind, arupa realms).


Not having by avoidance O-gasm doesn't mean you are above it or mastered the aspects of life in it. Peeps just 30 years avoiding Ogasms, can be progress-wise waste of time, since the O-gasm mechanics happen anyway you just not notice it.

auto
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by auto » Fri May 24, 2019 2:50 pm

polo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:26 pm
Auto, surprising long explanation I get from you. However while going through this long story that you are giving I got lost and in the end I don't get nothing. I am still wondering what you are trying to say.
If you could find the book regarding this method of practice do give us a note here on this forum so we could buy the book too. I really want to try to see if I could do it without ejaculation. I mean it's just like practicing tennis right? You need to concentrate and practice all the time.
read
Suttas

https://suttacentral.net/mn99/en/sujato
There are these five kinds of sensual stimulation. What five? There are sights known by the eye that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. There are sounds known by the ear … smells known by the nose … tastes known by the tongue … touches known by the body that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These are the five kinds of sensual stimulation.

Pokkharasāti enjoys himself with these five kinds of sensual stimulation, tied, infatuated, attached, blind to the drawbacks, and not understanding the escape. It’s not possible for him to know or see or realize a superhuman distinction in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones. It’s not possible for him to know or see or realize a superhuman distinction in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones.
.
What do you think, student? Which would have better flames, color, and radiance: a fire that depends on grass and logs as fuel, or one that does not?”
“If it were possible for a fire to burn without depending on grass and logs as fuel, that would have better flames, color, and radiance.”
.
“But it isn’t possible, except by psychic power.
Rapture that depends on the five kinds of sensual stimulation is like a fire that depends on grass and logs as fuel. Rapture that’s apart from sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities is like a fire that doesn’t depend on grass and logs as fuel.
.
And what is rapture that’s apart from sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities? It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.

This is rapture that’s apart from sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities..
the rapture from sensual pleasures vs rapture apart from sensual pleasures.

if you do in your terms a semen retentive sex then you won't get rapture since you avoid rapture. Rapture gets you to heaven.

also,

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge.
a rapture from intercourse is bad quality vs rapture apart ..

also O-gasm is overrated, high societies won't have sex so much you can see from statistics, just become more good person more sensitive it loses its shine.


Now, here if want then tell how rapture isn't O-gasm..while i think it is but not sure, it could be. There are more fuels for rapture and doesn't burn O-gasmlike but still is it.

Because of right practice, both laypeople and renunciates succeed in the procedure of the skillful teaching.”
..
The lay life is like farming in that it’s work with many requirements and when it fails it’s not very fruitful;
but when it succeeds it is very fruitful.
..
The renunciate life is like trade in that it’s work with few requirements and when it fails it’s not very fruitful;
but when it succeeds it is very fruitful.”

the main point is about realizing superhuman distinction. And there is no way one would have it if rapture is gotten by so low ways. Sutta says to follow persons who are the best, good persons and you can see how Sutta is showing with examples how to spot one and avoid others.

confusedlayman
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by confusedlayman » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:46 pm

As long as Kama consciousness (consciousness with lust for skin or body or sex as condition) don't arise, even if u have sex you won't get result. But there is no way u can have sex without arising of Kama consciousness so even thinking of lustful stuff is arising of Kama conciouness if I'm not wrong. So celibacy means not seeing something in lustful way such that Kama concciousness arises. Buddha never said his monks to think and imagine porn in mind but don't do in real. he told even thoughts should not arise in that way which is celibacy. as long as u involved in producing Kama consciousness depending on the intensity and mastery and clinging tendency along with other karma, you be born in respective plane but can never be born in brahma world I think. but for us buddhist, we stop delighting in feeling arising from lust thoughts or physical sex contact. buddha said lust is responsible for mass rebirth for majority and see how low and gross is feeling of sex compared to jhana and develop dispassion to that feeling of lust.

No one can be attracted to girls/body/anyobject of any sense. Everyone is attracted to only feelings and use boys, girls, objects as tool to get that feeling. if u have sex with girl but no sex feeling arises, instead hunger arises will u do sex again? its all about feeling not about the object that produces the feeling. as long as u don't contemplate feeling, contemplating object alone won't do anything. if u contemplate body as corpse, then instead of having sex with humans, u will use scientific instruments like dildo to get that feeling and it goes on and on.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:41 am

confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:46 pm
...
Everyone is attracted to only feelings and use boys, girls, objects as tool to get that feeling.
...
:goodpost:
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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Grigoris
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Grigoris » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:35 am

If you are not a monk, which 99% of the the people posting here are not, then sex (within the constraints of Right Action) is perfectly fine. That includes ejaculating.

If anybody disagrees then I DARE THEM to come up with a single teaching by the Buddha that says that LAY PEOPLE are not allowed to get laid or ejaculate.

If you want to practice celibacy then become a monk. Something about "cakes" and "eating" comes to mind here.

As for "Tibetan" practices...

When people start to talk publicly (and in detail) about chakras, you can be 100% sure that nothing serious or even vaguely relevant is being discussed. Vajrayana teachers very rarely teach sexual practices, because the prerequisites are well beyond the capacity and ability of weekend tantrika.

Without going into details about practices:

1. You need to have a living, breathing, qualified teacher that has completed the practices and is willing to teach them to you.
2. Both of the sexual partners have to have received the abhisheka (empowerment/initiation) for the specific deity and completed the preliminary and "approach" practices.
3. Both of the sexual partners have to be under 25 years of age, as the channels start to degrade after this point and the practice becomes useless (for spiritual purposes).
4. There is no 4. Why? Because 99.99999999999999999% of wannabe tantrika cannot fulfill the criteria of 1. 2. and 3. Especially criteria number 1.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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manas
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by manas » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:13 pm

Sex pleasure is a dead end (much like a woman's vagina, which ultimately leads to a uterus). You can never get enough of it. Learning how to suppress ejaculation and drive the energy up the body, one still experiences much physical pleasure, which vibrates in the mind and body for days afterward and undermines meditation practice. It might be healthier for the male body, but it doesn't, in my experience, lead to disenchantment with sex pleasure.

Just to be equal, our male organ is, to be honest, equally unappealing, when you think about it...an ugly looking extension of flesh that fills with blood when aroused, and emits millions of semi-alive microorganisms, to fulfill Nature's objective of furthering worldly existence.

I still have the desire to engage in sex but how much, depends on where I place my attention. Lately I've been wondering if the pleasure we gain, is worth the suffering that results from it.
Like a merchant with a small
but well-laden caravan
–a dangerous road,

like a person who loves life
–a poison,

one should avoid
–evil deeds.

(Dhammapada 123)


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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:37 am

squizzlebizzle wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:48 am
… I am curious the general consensus here on semen retention.


I am interested if anyone else has tried to practice semen-retention (continence) in sex while married or in a serious relationship in order to enhance their practice by getting closer to celibacy, and if anyone has found any sources that teach how to transmute one’s own sexual energy to spiritual energy or how to draw the energy upwards into the body.

:hug: :namaste:
SEX, CELIBACY and the SPIRITUAL LIFE
Bhante Henepola Gunaratana
https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha097.htm


:anjali:

...

Male Multiple Orgasms without Ejaculating: Exactly How to Have Them
https://www.nateliason.com/blog/multiple-orgasms-men

How to Have Multiple Orgasms
Yes, it's possible. It just takes some practice.
https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/a1 ... e-orgasms/

Multiple Orgasms in Men-What We Know So Far.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27872023

...

Everything You Need to Know About Semen Retention
https://www.healthline.com/health/healt ... -vs-no-fap

SELF-DEVELOPMENT KNOWLEDGE BASE
semen retention
https://www.brojo.org/info/semen-retention

THE CULT OF ‘SEMEN RETENTION’
These guys believe you shouldn’t cum because your seed contains holistic, metaphysical powers
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the ... -retention

NoFap 101: What Are The REAL Benefits of Nofap & Semen Retention?
https://byrslf.co/nofap-101-what-are-th ... 077c319a57

...

NoFap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoFap

...

Celibacy and Tantric Buddhism
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=24497

...

A Complete Guide to the Secrets of Sexual Transmutation
https://scottjeffrey.com/sexual-energy-transmutation/

What is a sex transmutation and how can it be done?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-sex-tra ... it-be-done

Taoist Secrets of Love: Cultivating Male Sexual Energy
https://www.amazon.com.br/Taoist-Secret ... 0943358191

The Multi-Orgasmic Couple: Sexual Secrets Every Couple Should Know
https://www.amazon.com.br/Multi-Orgasmi ... =1-2-fkmr0

Transmuting sexual energy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments ... al_energy/

The Sexual Energy Elixir
https://www.universal-tao.com/article/s ... lixir.html


:namaste:

gratification: pleasure and joy. danger: impermanent, unsatisfactory and suffering. escape: detachment.
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

Annatar
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Annatar » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:02 pm

squizzlebizzle wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:48 am
I am in a committed monogamous relationship...
I don’t know how to transmute the sexual energy into spiritual energy...
I think the real question here is what is the place for sex within a marriage in the context of the Middle Way.

I suspect that for many people this would imply avoiding sex outside the marriage, or some moderation of sexual activity. Some people avoid all sexual activity on Uposatha days. Probably some couples, by inclination and mutual agreement, are celibate or almost so.

Whilst sexual energy can sometimes be viewed as a problem to be solved, it is more helpful to look at ways in which this energy can be used in a wholesome way. Some questions come to mind. How can one nurture loving-kindness, compassion, and empathetic joy within marriage? Does sex have a part in this? What are ones wife's views about sex in all this?

You suggest that stream entry is attainable whilst still sexually active. Might I suggest that the attainment of celibacy is put on hold until after you have attained stream entry. It may be that at that stage you can see a clearer way forwards.

With metta,
Annatar

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Alīno
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Alīno » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:54 pm

About OP:

I remember when i still practice sexual activity, during the action i used to keep my mind concentrated on one point (into the darkness of the closed eyes) to seclude it from exitation and be able to continue endlessly without ejaculation... :coffee: :meditate: :strawman:
It seems that this "concentrations/seclusion of mind" technique is used by porno actors to control their ejaculation.

It showed me how "emotionless", "senseless", "pleasureless" and "conditioned" sexual activity is, and showed how Dhamma is realy amazing and powerfull :anjali: :bow:
Upāsaka Alīno - free from attachement and desire, undettered, one who perseveres, one who never gives up..._/\_

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