cappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:04 pm
Dinsdale wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:34 am
cappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:40 am
dependent arising becomes irrelevant in a single life model
...
since it would cease upon death, at least in theory
Not necessarily
it keeps arising,
this is the trouble
Yes it does, but there are different interpretations of the timescale involved. I was observing that the presence of the birth nidana could be problematic for single-life interpretations of DO, where it looks pretty much redundant. It's been and gone, we don't remember it, and it doesn't seem obviously related to suffering in the present. Its easy to see why the thought of old age and death would be a source of present suffering, but this is less clear in the case of birth. I suppose there could be regrets about the circumstances of one's birth, like wishing one had been born into a happier or wealthier family, or whatever, but it seems a bit tenuous.
These problems don't arise for multiple-life interpretations of DO, where birth straightforwardly leads to old age and death.
Anyway, as is clear from my Sutta Central searches above, there is loads of stuff about rebirth in the suttas, like it or not. It's easy enough to just set this stuff to one side if one doesn't find it relevant or useful. What I don't get is the lengths some people go to in their attempts to dismiss or deny all the references to rebirth in the Sutta. This response indicates aversion rather than objectivity.