Hi Autoauto wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:20 pm https://suttacentral.net/mn57/en/sujato
And what are dark deeds with dark results?
It’s when someone makes hurtful choices by way of body, speech, and mind.
Having made these choices, they’re reborn in a hurtful world,
So sabyābajjhaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhaṃ vacīsaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhaṃ manosaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhaṃ lokaṃ upapajjati.
where hurtful contacts touch them.
Touched by hurtful contacts, they experience hurtful feelings that are exclusively painful—like the beings in hell.
This is how a being is born from a being.
Iti kho, puṇṇa, bhūtā bhūtassa upapatti hoti;
For your deeds determine your rebirth,
yaṃ karoti tena upapajjati,
The Pali word "upapajjati" does not appear to literally means "rebirth". It appears to literally mean "to proceed from" or "to follow from".
For example, the Pali word "upapajjati" is found in MN 148, as follows:
It appears the quote above from MN 148 should be literally translated as follows:If anyone says, ‘the eye is self,’ that is not tenable.
‘Cakkhu attā’ti yo vadeyya taṃ na upapajjati.
The arising and vanishing of the eye is evident,
Cakkhussa uppādopi vayopi paññāyati.
https://suttacentral.net/mn148/en/sujato
Therefore, MN 57 is possibly literally translated as follows:If anyone says, ‘the eye is self,’ that does not proceed/follow.
‘Cakkhu attā’ti yo vadeyya taṃ na upapajjati.
The arising and vanishing of the eye is evident,
Cakkhussa uppādopi vayopi paññāyati.
https://suttacentral.net/mn148/en/sujato
In other words, despite Cappuccino's objections, it appears a "here-&-now upapajjati" is possible.And what are dark deeds with dark results?
Katamañca, puṇṇa, kammaṃ kaṇhaṃ kaṇhavipākaṃ?
It’s when someone makes hurtful choices by way of body, speech, and mind.
Idha, puṇṇa, ekacco sabyābajjhaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharoti, sabyābajjhaṃ vacīsaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharoti, sabyābajjhaṃ manosaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharoti.
Having made these choices, it follows they proceed to a hurtful world,
So sabyābajjhaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhaṃ vacīsaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhaṃ manosaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhaṃ lokaṃ upapajjati.
Regards