Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

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Bundokji
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by Bundokji » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:15 pm

chownah wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:34 pm
Best to not over generalize.
Can there be an definitive statement that does not include generalization? For example, your statement "best to not over generalize", is it applicable all the time, or some of the time?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

chownah
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by chownah » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:13 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:15 pm
chownah wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:34 pm
Best to not over generalize.
Can there be an definitive statement that does not include generalization? For example, your statement "best to not over generalize", is it applicable all the time, or some of the time?
You seem to be confusing generalizaton with over generalization.

I wouldn't want to be overly general about definitive statements by claiming that there can not be a definitive statement that does not include generalization....or perhaps more concisely: I would not want to be overly general by claiming that all definitive statements include generalization.

By simply pointing out limits of application for a statement one can eliminate over generalization.....by under generalization one can avoid over generalization as well.

chownah

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mikenz66
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:25 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:49 am
The nature of the fields of which men and women are interested in supports the above view. Most disciplines and sciences that offers higher degrees of certainty seem to be predominated by males and vice versa. ...
There's no "high certainty" in any science. If there were, there'd be no need for any research (in the scientific sense of creating new knowledge). I guess you mean STEM subjects...

The balance in those subjects is changing (which is why I'm able to have opinions about women in my workplace...). Slowly, as there's a long history of ideas about "appropriate professions" being strongly communicated to girls in their formative years that takes decades to work through the pipeline...

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by Ceisiwr » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:55 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:25 pm
Bundokji wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:49 am
The nature of the fields of which men and women are interested in supports the above view. Most disciplines and sciences that offers higher degrees of certainty seem to be predominated by males and vice versa. ...
There's no "high certainty" in any science. If there were, there'd be no need for any research (in the scientific sense of creating new knowledge). I guess you mean STEM subjects...

The balance in those subjects is changing (which is why I'm able to have opinions about women in my workplace...). Slowly, as there's a long history of ideas about "appropriate professions" being strongly communicated to girls in their formative years that takes decades to work through the pipeline...

:heart:
Mike


I think it’s a mix of biology and nurture. If you remove all social barriers I think men and women will still filter naturally into different professions on average.

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Bundokji
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by Bundokji » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:07 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:25 pm
Bundokji wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:49 am
The nature of the fields of which men and women are interested in supports the above view. Most disciplines and sciences that offers higher degrees of certainty seem to be predominated by males and vice versa. ...
There's no "high certainty" in any science. If there were, there'd be no need for any research (in the scientific sense of creating new knowledge). I guess you mean STEM subjects...

The balance in those subjects is changing (which is why I'm able to have opinions about women in my workplace...). Slowly, as there's a long history of ideas about "appropriate professions" being strongly communicated to girls in their formative years that takes decades to work through the pipeline...

:heart:
Mike
It is changing negatively in countries that emphasizes gender equality in whiat has become to be known "the gender equality paradox"

https://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equali ... 6-Feb2018/
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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mikenz66
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:18 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:07 pm
It is changing negatively in countries that emphasizes gender equality in whiat has become to be known "the gender equality paradox"

https://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equali ... 6-Feb2018/
Yes, there are complex things going on, but there's definitely a positive change in my country in the subjects I pay attention to.

And, not in my area, but females outnumber males in medical schools here... Females are scoring better at school, so I guess they can choosing a higher-paid career...


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DooDoot
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:00 pm

binocular wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:22 am
I find men are easier to talk to than women.
That is possibly because they are lusting over you and you are possibly seducing them. :tongue:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Bundokji
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by Bundokji » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:20 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:18 pm
Yes, there are complex things going on, but there's definitely a positive change in my country in the subjects I pay attention to.

And, not in my area, but females outnumber males in medical schools here... Females are scoring better at school, so I guess they can choosing a higher-paid career...


:heart:
Mike
What is interesting though is the negative correlation between removing the social barriers and women engagement in STEM. The current research results seem to debunk the notion that social stereotypes negatively affects women choices when it comes to STEM, because the more those social barriers are removed, the wider the gap in male to female ratio in STEM.

It is easy to see why highlighting biological differences can trigger fears and face much resistance because it can be so easily misused. However, the damage caused by denying them is less easy to see in my opinion.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:12 pm

Greetings,

The discussion seems to be drifting into matters of gender and education, which would be better discussed at Dharma Wheel Engaged.

(Interesting though how the conversation veered away from men's issues to women's issues... could that social inclination to disregard men's issues by putting them in competition with women's issues be a factor as to why male suicide rates are so high?)

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by binocular » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:48 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:12 pm
(Interesting though how the conversation veered away from men's issues to women's issues... could that social inclination to disregard men's issues by putting them in competition with women's issues be a factor as to why male suicide rates are so high?)
The moment something becomes an "issue", it automatically becomes part of "women's issues".
There is no such thing as "men's issues". Any man who presumes to have "issues", thereby instantly, through that, becomes effeminate, less of a man.
:candle:


Anyway, the topic of this thread is semi-legal at best, and there is no hope to actually discuss it in proper depth without venturing into the illegal or otherwise problematic.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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DooDoot
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by DooDoot » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:08 am

binocular wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:48 am



Anyway, the topic of this thread is semi-legal at best, and there is no hope to actually discuss it in proper depth without venturing into the illegal or otherwise problematic.
Well, I personally have always been reclusive since I became a Buddhist therefore I don’t have any compelling experience of sangha. I thought this topic was akin to the concept of male sangha.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Mr Man
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by Mr Man » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:01 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:08 am
binocular wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:48 am



Anyway, the topic of this thread is semi-legal at best, and there is no hope to actually discuss it in proper depth without venturing into the illegal or otherwise problematic.
Well, I personally have always been reclusive since I became a Buddhist therefore I don’t have any compelling experience of sangha. I thought this topic was akin to the concept of male sangha.
Hi DooDoot

What is the concept of male sangha?

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DooDoot
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Re: Suicide: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other"

Post by DooDoot » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:50 am

Mr Man wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:01 am
What is the concept of male sangha?
I don't know; as I posted. When I lived in a monastery, I generally avoided the clique boys clubs. That is why I started this topic about: "Men heal sitting side by side with each other". In other words, have any of us men had close connections with a man or men that helped us through a difficult situation. Regards
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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