Hello all,
I have a question, about a simile i heard about. It's regarding craving being like a fire, and that an arahant is 'quenched' because this 'fire' of craving has 'gone out', which is the state of 'nibbana', the flame being 'blown out'.
Regarding 'clinging' (feeding, sustenance') the as in the scheme of Dependent Co-arising, is 'feeding', the fire 'clinging' to it's fuel? Thus, with the cessation of craving (the fire of craving going out), comes the cessation of clinging (there is no more 'clinging' of a fire to it's fuel). So 'Nibbana' had this positive connotation, of 'release', just as an extinguished flame was considered back then, of having been 'freed' (from the burdensome process of burning?) I think I recall the Buddha praising the arahant as 'quenched, cooled', (and thus at peace, just like the extinguished flame (is that correct?)
So I take it that, with the cessation of clinging comes the cessation of 'being/becoming', just as the fire's previous clinging to it's fuel, was what had kept the process of burning going. For an arahant, that process is over. With the cessation of becoming, comes the cessation of birth. With the cessation of birth: old age, death, lamentation, pain, distress & despair all cease. Final peace from the 'Wheel of Becoming'.
Am I understanding the Buddha's analogies correctly here?
A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
Generally, that is how I see it too.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
vaguelymanas wrote: Am I understanding the Buddha's analogies correctly here?
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
Could you elaborate, I don't learn much just from that answercappuccino wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:51 pmvaguelymanas wrote: Am I understanding the Buddha's analogies correctly here?
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
you start to understand & difficult choices awaitmanas wrote:Could you elaborate, I don't learn much just from that answercappuccino wrote:vaguelymanas wrote: Am I understanding the Buddha's analogies correctly here?
the question is how much you're willing to let go of
Last edited by cappuccino on Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
Not really. Arahant is "quenched" in the sense that ignorance and craving are quenched and exist no more, just like when fire runs out of fuel it ceases and exists no more.So 'Nibbana' had this positive connotation, of 'release', just as an extinguished flame was considered back then, of having been 'freed' (from the burdensome process of burning?) I think I recall the Buddha praising the arahant as 'quenched, cooled', (and thus at peace, just like the extinguished flame (is that correct?)
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
annihilation is suffering, stressful to contemplateZom wrote:just like when fire runs out of fuel it ceases and exists no more.
hence it goes against this teaching
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
Have you read this?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... index.html
It's a lengthy essay on that particular idea. There is also an extended treatment of it in Gombrich's "What the Buddha Thought".
-
- Posts: 2298
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
I think you are understanding right. What might help is to review that the perception of fire at the time of the Buddha was that fire "clung" to it's fuel. So extinguishment meant the process of burning stopped because of release of the clinging--stopping the process. We don't usually think of fire that way now, but it sort of enhances the Buddha's imagery and description. Makes a lot more sense I think.
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
It's also discussed in detail in Bhikkhu Nanananda's work: https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/Sam Vara wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:42 pmHave you read this?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... index.html
It's a lengthy essay on that particular idea. There is also an extended treatment of it in Gombrich's "What the Buddha Thought".
Particularly "Nibbana the Mind Stilled".
In "Questions & Answers on Dhamma" he notes:
“If the fire ‘goes out’ some think you should be able to go
and locate where it is. Some scholars in the West also follow the
same Hindu way where they think when the fire goes out it stays
in some ineffable state. When it comes to such points of absurdity
the Buddha had to correct them. ...
Mike
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
Nirvana is an element, a realm, a state
Annihilation isn't an element, nor a realm, etc
Annihilation isn't an element, nor a realm, etc
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
There is nothing that annihilates. So what is that annihilation you are talking about?annihilation is suffering, stressful to contemplate
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
if someone would annihilate you now, it would be suffering & stressZom wrote:There is nothing that annihilates. So what is that annihilation you are talking about?annihilation is suffering, stressful to contemplate
because Nirvana isn't suffering, Nirvana isn't annihilation
Re: A question about 'the fire clinging to it's fuel'
Again, I ask: what annihilates?