Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by retrofuturist » Wed May 22, 2019 8:57 pm

Greetings manas,
JamesTheGiant wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:42 pm
On that list there are 4 in Australia, so you could line up a one month stay at each, and spend a good 4 months as a start.
Agreed. In light of the aforementioned health concerns, Australia seems the way to go. Here, you can rely on Medicare.... because who knows how you will fare elsewhere in a nation where you are both not a citizen, and not supported by a laity or government who might otherwise fund such things for monastics.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by Dan74-MkII » Wed May 22, 2019 9:23 pm

manas wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:43 pm
Dan74-MkII wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:13 am
Hello manas ! :hello:

Very happy for you!!! This letting go and embracing your practice in a joyful wholehearted way is a wonderful thing.

A word of caution will probably sound somewhat tone-deaf at this stage, but anyway here it goes. I don't know how much experience you've had with longer retreats or periods of intense practice. Difficult things tend to float up to the surface. One starts to miss the familiar comforts, get annoyed at all the little things. It is not easy. And if one finally packs it in and returns to the life before, you can feel disenchanted, disappointed with yourself or with the Dhamma, but in any case with little drive or energy to practice.

The pendulum tends to swing from the romantic notion of a spiritual practitioner, monk-like, pure and radiant to the confused and filthy samsara-dweller. Both of these are illusions. Stay in the moment as much as possible, aware of what arises and facing it squarely, leaving the narratives and expectations aside, and this will surely be a worthwhile time for you.

_/|\_
Thanks Dan, that's good advice. It would just be for one month at this stage, however. As you say, after a month I will probably either want to leave, or remain for life, depending on how i find it. No, I don't have any illusions or romantic notions about being radiant etc :lol: My life could hardly be more boring than it is right now, so if anything the change of scenery will be like a holiday. Have not had a gf for over six or more years now, so being celibate is same old, same old. Nothing new about that LOL. Thanks for the note of caution, however.

I will not go into any detail, but my heart's already been through the wringer, especially regarding my dear children, who have been through so much pain and distress for the last few years), and I've had to learn that while doing the best I can as a father to protect them, help them heal etc, there comes a stage where you realize you can't protect them from getting hurt in life, ultimately. My heart has already been wrung out, and I ended up with nowhere else to turn, but the Dhamma for solace. Learning to trust and let go regarding them (they are both doing much better lately, thank goodness :smile: )but I have a note of warning to anyone considering having kids: the more you care (and grow attached) to someone, the more it will hurt you, should they suffer. To sum it up, attachment leads to grief and sorrow. Nothing at the Monastery could compare with the distress of the past year or so, believe me. It was the Dhamma that got me through. :heart:
I'm sorry that you had to go through all this.. It can be really tough on Dads..

Regarding your planned stay, glad that you don't harbour any rosy-coloured notions. I guess that even those of us who live very modestly, still tend to fall into a pattern and create a comfort zone of sorts. Getting out of it can be quite tricky, so I think to plan a one month stay is wise and will surely give you lots to reflect on.

All the best with it!

_/|\_

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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by Mkoll » Thu May 23, 2019 2:37 am

manas wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:51 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:22 pm
Greetings Manas,

Excellent news.

If there's any way I can be of assistance in this process, don't hesitate to ask.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Thanks Paul, because with so many options, i feel a bit out of my depth here, in making a decision. Even if we could just meet in person some time to discuss it, that would be of great assistance. I suddenly wonder if, despite a gradual and incremental improvement in both practice, understanding and conviction over almost 25 years, now, that at 50 years of age, I would not be accepted long-term. I heard recently, that in some places, there's a policy to not accept anyone over 40; too hard to change, apparently. Also, what monastery would accept a man who, due to a tiny hernia in my navel, cannot heavy-lift? I can of course sweep, clean, cook and I'm good at making medicinal drinks should anyone have a cold, but I would not be of much use with building projects. I recall reading once, that an aspirant should be 'fit enough to undertake the duties of a monk'.
Have you seen a surgeon about your hernia? Many can be repaired surgically.

Anyway, anumodana for your aspiration and may you meet with success! I'd like to do something similar eventually, but only after I've done a few longer term retreats.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by DooDoot » Thu May 23, 2019 5:13 am

manas wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:11 pm
I have a kidney condition, 'low kidney function', due to high blood pressure, or so the specialist believes. I just looked up malaria...
Most of Malaysia & Thailand have no malaria. Its only in wild border regions where there is malaria. There is no malaria at Wat Pah Nanachat. This said, there are certainly forms of fever, such as Dengue Fever (which also exists in North Queensland). However, to be safe, yes, simply try a place in Australia such as Newbury or Wat Buddha Dhamma. Best wishes.

:namaste:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by Nwad » Thu May 23, 2019 6:11 am

Idappaccayata wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:52 pm


I'm guessing James will have a more accurate answer, but I'm guessing it's mostly due to the location, in Canada. The winters are long and harsh, and the monastery is secluded. The Abbott, ajahn Sona, has many talks on YouTube you can check out.
I like a lot Ajahn Sona teachings ! Thank you for information !
Do you know if they can ordain people in Birken?
I will try to visit them _/\_

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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by manas » Thu May 23, 2019 10:32 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am
Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:55 am
It is great if you can share your experience here. That may help many.
I won't go into it in great detail, but when I divorced in 2012, I intended to ordain in the same city, so that my son (then 8 years old) would still be able to see me on occasion, if he chose to do so. After some time it became apparent to me that I felt too much responsibility towards him to go down that path, so I decided instead to buy a unit and continue working, but with the view of undertaking a minimalist lifestyle, and hopefully having paid off the unit in order to gift it to him, by the time he became an adult in 9 or 10 years time, at which time I would finally ordain. Then, on my travels through life, I started Bikram Yoga, met my wife at the yoga studio, now have two more sons (Owen, 3 & Patrick, 1), and plans of ordination are totally out the window. Interestingly though, I'm at peace with this outcome in a way that I wasn't during my first marriage. I think I've learned how to find the right balance, navigating past situations faced in 2010 and 2016.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Thank you for sharing that. I've already encountered a similar obstacle, born of my (in my opinion, rightful) sense of duty towards my youngest, who I only recently was told was 'doing well'.

My ex has informed me, that she is currently 'in a mess mentally', not attending the new school up there (in the country, living with my ex), deeply depressed. There is no way I'm going to be able to find peace of mind in a monastery, being aware of my daughter's suffering.

I've decided, the best thing to do right now is to get a room close to a Monastery perhaps, or the Buddhist Society , so I can easily visit a monk / monks, and get more noble association, give regular dana, build up my 'store of merit', meditate, anyway to sum it up: dana, sila, bhavana. When i heard of my daughter's condition this morning, I knew I am not ready to ordain, or even live as a monk at this time, my mind is now focussed on somehow getting a better living arrangement, a room near a Buddhist centre that has monks from the the Thai Forest Tradition, and as I said, socializing with 'people of integrity', as it says in the suttas. Somehow , I need to get more physically strong and healthy, so I can get a job of some kind, and afford a two-bedroom dwelling, and perhaps my daughter will then feel safe to move back to Melbourne and live with me again. I'm very concerned at her being depressed and at her mother's and I have valid reasons for that, I'd best leave it at that however.

So my previous kamma 'action' of having children, is still an obstacle, in the sense that I would be a pretty uncaring father, if I just thought of my own needs, and went off to a more renounced life at this time. It would be selfish of me, a bit too easy. The honourable and right thing to do, is to knuckle down and get some work, so I can afford a dwelling my daughter will actually be happy to reside in (i've been stuck in substandard dwellings, while my ex has a nice, big house in the country, by comparison). To sum it up, I think my daughter still needs me after all. I cannot just 'up and leave' yet.

So, my current task is to simply find a mould-free room anywhere, to be honest. I think the black mould in the flat i currently still reside in is pretty bad for my health.

Thank you everyone for your input and advice. I don't regret having had children, to do that would not only be mean-spirited towards them, but would also be denying of the past twenty years, in which I've learned so much about real caring, sacrifice, etc. Furthermore, I actually do love my kids, just to be clear. They are both pretty special, intelligent, kind-hearted, etc. I feel blessed to have had them, as my kids. However, there are consequences when we bring a being into the world, and not being wealthy or able to provide a good dwelling with extended family who can care for my daughter (when the Buddha renounced the home life, he left his newborn son in good hands, safe and with extended family), it is my duty to think of my daughter's welfare at this time.

If any Melbourne residents know of a flat, room or even a clean, dry, mould-free shed I could reside in, even just for a few months while I try to sort things out, please let me know, it would be much appreciated (I could afford to pay up to $200 per week maximum). With that this topic ought to end, I don't want anyone expending any more energy on advising me, on something I cannot currently do in good conscience. Once my daughter is well and happy, however, I will re-examine the 'monastery stay, with a view to perhaps ordaining' option again.
Thanks everyone.
:anjali:
From what's dear is born grief,
from what's dear is born fear.
For one freed from what's dear
there's no grief
— so how fear?


Dhp 212

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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Greetings Manas,

Thank you for sharing.

Just remember, your life is no less important, for having this path to follow. As you point out, there is lots of good that can be done, in multiple ways. In a very real sense, the possibilities are endless.

:namaste:

( Let me know if you would like to close this topic. You're always welcome to started a new one, and I would in fact encourage it, if engagement with kalayana-mittas and the opportunity to share thoughts would be of benefit to you. )

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 23, 2019 8:51 pm

manas wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:32 am
....expending any more energy on advising me, on something I cannot currently do in good conscience.
Oh no, everybody loooves giving advice! That's one of the best things about the internet, we get the opportunity to give random advice from the comfort of our own lounge-chairs.

Watch out! Mara is clever with the strategies he uses to stop you doing dhamma things or being close to monks!

On a more serious note, it's good that you are able to change your mind and back down publicly.

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manas
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Re: Preparing to stay at a Monastery, to experience the lifestyle for a while :)

Post by manas » Wed May 29, 2019 5:38 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:51 pm
manas wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:32 am
....expending any more energy on advising me, on something I cannot currently do in good conscience.
Oh no, everybody loooves giving advice! That's one of the best things about the internet, we get the opportunity to give random advice from the comfort of our own lounge-chairs.

Watch out! Mara is clever with the strategies he uses to stop you doing dhamma things or being close to monks!

On a more serious note, it's good that you are able to change your mind and back down publicly.
I suspect that considering my physical health issues, and grief as i accept that my daughter doesnt even call me anymore - it turns out , she is happier at her mothers, and i'm glad about that, but still, i feel like my messiness and constant battle with smoking, etc finally annoyed her to the point that i kind of drove her away. I'm feeling remorse, but i'm glad she is at her mothers and doing much better now . it seems her mother has 'stepped up' also, and is being nicer nowadays, which i'm also glad of.

So it turns out, my daughter doesn't need me after all, in fact she's better off where she is, at her mothers. But now, another doubt suddenly arises. My physical health. im slightly embarrassed for having contemplated that a monastery would consider someone with my health issues, for possibly ordination. Yes retro, its time to close this topic. thank you everyone for your kind assistance and advice.
:anjali:
From what's dear is born grief,
from what's dear is born fear.
For one freed from what's dear
there's no grief
— so how fear?


Dhp 212

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