Should nuns and monks be political?

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Should nuns and monks be political?

Monks and nuns should remain silent on political matters - Dhamma only
12
55%
Monks and nuns should comment on political matters of the day
2
9%
Monks and nuns should only comment in extreme political circumstances such as war, brutal dictatorship etc
8
36%
 
Total votes: 22

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Will
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Will » Sun May 12, 2019 2:08 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 11:18 am
Monks and Nuns should do what they feel is appropriate.
Based only on the Dhamma taught by Buddha.

Considering how this thread is degenerating into squabbling over politics, I would suggest lay Buddhists also avoid discussing political "solutions" to this world.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of selflessness.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 12, 2019 9:25 pm

Greetings,
mettafuture wrote:The question was "should nuns and monks be political?" I'm answering that question, and replying to your responses. Or is "no" the only answer that's allowed in this thread? Or is "no" the only answer that's allowed in this thread?
Any poll answer is fine, but if you actually want to discuss Engaged Buddhism, praise its merits, or argue its necessity this forum is not the place for that - Dharma Wheel Engaged is.

Thank you.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

chownah
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by chownah » Mon May 13, 2019 3:50 am

mettafuture wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 11:19 am

Because monks and nuns are a part of that "we." Politics affects all of us.
Monks and nuns who present publicly as monks and nuns are (from a worldly viewpoint) acting with an authority to represent buddhism. If they do this it politicizes buddhism.

If monks and nuns do not present publicly as monks and nuns (don't wear the robes, don't claim clergical status, etc.......something very hard to do in this information age) then they can partake of the actions of the "we" without politicizing buddhism.

Generally I think that one need not consider whether a budhist is a monk or nun.....one only need consider whether a buddhist acts politically as a buddhist and makes a statement of some sort to that effect (either overtly or by implication). If a buddhist claims or implies that buddhism supports their political activity then it will have the effect of politicizing buddhism.....it is difficult (impossible) for a monk or nun to make a political statement which does not claim or imply that their political actions are supported by buddhism so it is inevitable that politically active monks and nuns will politicize buddhism.

If one thinks it is fine to politicize buddhism then politically active monks and nuns will be fine with them. There will be a politicizing of buddhism and since various buddhists have various political positions it will also tend to create schisms in buddhism and the sangha.

chownah

ChooChoo
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by ChooChoo » Sun May 19, 2019 11:29 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:51 am
Idappaccayata wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 am
You just shared a video by a literal, self proclaimed Nazi...
I did originally post the view in the video would be written-off as "Nazi" but deleted my comment. Note: I don't have psychic powers. ;)
Idappaccayata wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 am
I would honestly like to hear your attempt to explain how this "monk" isn't engaging in politics, and how you justify him doin speaking to a white nationalist?
The above is irrelevant. You are attacking the speaker rather than focusing upon what the speaker said. This said, I critiqued the monk in another thread.
Brian Ruhe is a self proclaimed Nazi. The monk is engaging in far politics, he said so himself.

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 20, 2019 12:35 am

ChooChoo wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:29 pm
Brian Ruhe is a self proclaimed Nazi. The monk is engaging in far politics, he said so himself.
As irrelevant as having a "boner" on a meditation retreat. Do you think the Nazi political had absolutely nothing in common with Dhamma? For example, did Nazi policy support families or did Nazi policy support the sex industry? If Brian Ruhe or the monk say anything in accordance with Dhamma, what they say remains valid. If Brian Ruhe or the monk say anything contrary to the Dhamma, what they say remains invalid.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Caodemarte
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Caodemarte » Mon May 20, 2019 1:30 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:35 am
....For example, did Nazi policy support families or did Nazi policy support the sex industry? If Brian Ruhe or the monk say anything in accordance with Dhamma, what they say remains valid. If Brian Ruhe or the monk say anything contrary to the Dhamma, what they say remains invalid.
Their “pro family” empty propaganda aside, in fact they supported and enforced sexual slavery and sexual abuse of women on a mass scale in addition to more generalized mass murder which included women and children. Support for Nazism is pretty much as anti-Dhammic as one can politically get, although I suppose support for state supported mass cannibalism would be a step further away from the Dhamma.

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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by ChooChoo » Mon May 20, 2019 1:53 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:35 am
ChooChoo wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:29 pm
Brian Ruhe is a self proclaimed Nazi. The monk is engaging in far politics, he said so himself.
As irrelevant as having a "boner" on a meditation retreat. Do you think the Nazi political had absolutely nothing in common with Dhamma? For example, did Nazi policy support families or did Nazi policy support the sex industry? If Brian Ruhe or the monk say anything in accordance with Dhamma, what they say remains valid. If Brian Ruhe or the monk say anything contrary to the Dhamma, what they say remains invalid.
Buddhism teaches non harm and pacifism, the Nazis were far from pacificist. The monk in the video even said that is why he could not accept Brian Ruhes offer to be his leader, Even though he agrees with some of his points.

Monks Words..
Even so, it seems fairly straightforward to me that, from the perspective of Theravada Buddhist ethics, Adolf Hitler was not a very good or a very wise person. As I wrote a few months ago in a blog post on Buddhist militarism, there really is no valid way to spin Dhamma as anything but radically pacifist


It is not hard to figure out why a decent person would write off a Nazi.
Last edited by retrofuturist on Mon May 20, 2019 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Unsubstantiated allegation removed (ToS2d)

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 20, 2019 3:37 am

ChooChoo wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:53 am
Buddhism teaches non harm and pacifism, the Nazis were far from pacificist.
Again, the above is irrelevant because Buddhism is a path of renunciation while Nazism was a political doctrine that was no different to any other political doctrine, all of which are militaristic. You appear to be saying traditional Monarchism, Theocracy (such as Judaism, Vatican or Islam), Communism or modern Democracy was/is "pacifist". You appear to be saying countries such as Burma & Thailand, never had wars with each other. :roll:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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retrofuturist
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 20, 2019 5:16 am

Greetings,

To summarise the above, I agree it makes no sense to discount someone's take on the Dhamma, based upon their other interests and beliefs.

It's helpful to know their interests and beliefs, as these have the potential to color their take on the Dhamma (as is the case, for example, with Bhikkhu Bodhi's "The Buddha’s Teachings on Social and Communal Harmony"), but that in itself does not make their Dhamma presentation wrong. Their words should rise or fall on their own merits, not based upon the attributes of who spoke them.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

ChooChoo
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by ChooChoo » Mon May 20, 2019 1:33 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:37 am
ChooChoo wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:53 am
Buddhism teaches non harm and pacifism, the Nazis were far from pacificist.
Again, the above is irrelevant because Buddhism is a path of renunciation while Nazism was a political doctrine that was no different to any other political doctrine, all of which are militaristic.

No not the same. There is a reason why "neo-nazis" are considered hate groups. There is reason why most normal society shuns them.

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