Sutta references:
"In dependence on a contact to be experienced as pain, the pain-faculty arises. Being pained, one discerns, 'I am pained.' With the cessation of that very contact to be experienced as pain, one discerns, 'What was experienced as coming from that — the pain-faculty arising in dependence on a contact to be experienced as pain — ceases & grows still.’—-SN 48.39
"Sensing a feeling of pleasure, he senses it disjoined from it. Sensing a feeling of pain, he senses it disjoined from it. Sensing a feeling of neither-pleasure-nor-pain, he senses it disjoined from it. This is called a well-instructed disciple of the noble ones disjoined from birth, aging, & death; from sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs. He is disjoined, I tell you, from suffering & stress.”—-“The Arrow”, SN 36.6
How to reach the 1st Jhana?
Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?
By understanding it
Discerning the wholesome (non-sensuality) from unwholesome (sensuality).
When it is actually discerned, not just recalled, kept in mind, repeated, studied, drilled, or memorized.
But actually discerned as such.
How do you know if you do?
Because when you discern it as such the hindrances are suppressed, the factors are developed, invisibility to Mara is attained.
Discerning the wholesome (non-sensuality) from unwholesome (sensuality).
When it is actually discerned, not just recalled, kept in mind, repeated, studied, drilled, or memorized.
But actually discerned as such.
How do you know if you do?
Because when you discern it as such the hindrances are suppressed, the factors are developed, invisibility to Mara is attained.
Re: Pain Faculty
That's not what I meant, Sarath. It's the jhanas we're speaking of here. It's the samatha part, not vipassana.SarathW wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:33 am I can be related to what Ven. Kumara's experience but I never thought of comparing it with Sutta.
However, I think it is a matter of seeing Vedana as Vedana and Sanna as Sanna as two different things.
Perhaps being mindful of Vedana and Sanna will reduce the mental suffering. (second arrow)
Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?
I would just like to address these aspects of the discussion, since they are repeating themes (and important for the practice of jhāna).
Re 'how to reach jhāna', I would say that, along with solid sīla, sense-restraint and actually putting in the hours to meditate, Ajahn Brahm's description of jhāna (quoted by DooDoot) is a realistic and balanced understanding, as well as being good instructions, for jhāna:
These two opposing descriptions of jhāna, which are still ubiquitous, are the extremes (and both should be disregarded). Jhāna being a 'near-normal' state of consciousness is equally as false as jhāna being nearly impossible to reach for anyone other than a monastic. It is much more the middle of the two (not impossible, but definitely not easy).Sam Vara wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:18 pm As well as Bodom's and Doodoot's excellent advice above, I ought to mention that you are likely to get different answers from people, depending on what they think the 1st Jhana is. Some teachers think it is a "near normal" state of consciousness, accessible to most people who practice meditation in a particular sort of way. Others favour an approach which says that jhanas are very rare, very deep states of mind which will probably not be accessible to modern practitioners; maybe something for very advanced monastics, but not for most of us.
But it is sufficient. The Buddha non-intentionally reached jhāna as a child. He also strived to develop jhāna under Āḷāra Kālāma and Uddaka. It is similar for other bhikkhus, and even for lay followers.Sam Vara wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:18 pm As far as I can see, the translations of what the Buddha said about jhana are not sufficient to make it clear which approach he would have favoured; although, of course, people will quote suttas to show that their particular understanding is the "correct" one.
The interpretation of jhāna by Leigh Brasington et al. is simply a confusion of taking neighbourhood-concentration (upacāra-samādhi) to be jhāna.Sam Vara wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:18 pm Having said that, you might also want to have a look at Leigh Brasington's writing on Jhana. He is in the first camp - those who believe that Jhana is not excessively difficult or strange.
http://www.leighb.com/jhana3.htm
Re 'how to reach jhāna', I would say that, along with solid sīla, sense-restraint and actually putting in the hours to meditate, Ajahn Brahm's description of jhāna (quoted by DooDoot) is a realistic and balanced understanding, as well as being good instructions, for jhāna:
You experience every part of each in-breath and out-breath continuously for many hundred breaths in a row. That is why this stage is called full sustained attention on the breath.You cannot reach this stage through force, through holding or gripping. You can attain this degree of stillness
only by letting go of everything in the entire universe except for this momentary experience of the breath happening silently. Actually “you”
do not reach this stage, the mind does. The mind does the work itself.
Jhanas are states of letting go, incredibly deep states of contentment. So give away the hungry mind. Develop contentment on the beautiful breath, and nimittas and jhanas will happen by themselves.
One of the many simple but profound statements of the Buddha is that “a meditator who makes letting go the main object easily achieves samadhi,” that is, attentive stillness, the goal of meditation (SN 48.9).
Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm
Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?
Jhana is merely perception and feeling of the kasinas (plus the seventh, eighth and ninth - which are easy to access). Kasinas are not difficult to access - nor are the seventh, eighth and ninth. They’re everywhere. Becoming “absorbed” in them is a matter of patience, insight and time.
This adherence to anapanasati as the only route the Buddha took to find jhana - it’s unfounded. Anapanasati stands alone as a meditation practice for the wind kasina - the fourth jhana.
This adherence to anapanasati as the only route the Buddha took to find jhana - it’s unfounded. Anapanasati stands alone as a meditation practice for the wind kasina - the fourth jhana.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?
This is really incredible to read because it is an almost exact description of a state I've been encountering in my meditation.Nwad wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:58 am Thank you Thepea and Kamran to your reply!
Ysterday, after reading a chapter about Dhutanga in Visudhimagga, before going asleep, i does my meditation session.
The theme was dukkha.
After scanning all parts of my body and get to "acces concentration" which was clear and open, with body calm and little numb, i left my mind on pleasant sensation in my hands. After some minutes my mind and feelings becomes to change. I felt my mind being absorbed, my feeling becoming more perceptive (sounds become more loud, smouth lightlings in my closed eyes become lighter, my body became complitely numb, i get very very very HOT and even get some sue on my moustache lol and as the firts time there is some powerfull feeling and my heart rythm explosed, with breathing become very fast because of all of that sensations !
As my theme was dukkha my mind dont interpret this powerfull feeling as "pleasure" and this heart beating and breath rythm increase as "fear". And i think that this great heat sensation was because my concentration on "hand touch" feeling. Anyway, what is intresting is that my body became complitely numb, i no more felt it, just feeling of numbness, and as sensations was very strong i lost my perception of time... After imerging of that state i asked my self is my perception of heart beating and breathing fast was not just perception of some kind of "acceleration mode" like some movie which you accelerate ... i dont know.. but if this state would be more stable with not excited mind who break it, it seems to be pretty realistic to seat like this a couple of hours or so...
I dont know if it was some kind of absorbtion but i know that its works and how it works, so i will try to explore that
PS watching a little bit closer i think that this heat in body appear because my concentratiin of mind was nit realy about pleasent feeling in hands, but about "heat" feeling percived as "pleasent"... Kasina?
- Body becomes numb
- Sounds become louder
- Body becomes very hot, lots of sweat
- Increased heart rate/strength of heart beat
- A sense of "ramping up" or acceleration
Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?
For anyone who wishes to attain jhanas, I suggest learning meditation from Ajahn Brahm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOWONsVx9So
Kevin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOWONsVx9So
Kevin
Re: How to reach absorption?
Seems like this thread should be titled
How to reach absorption
Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?
Here is a talk by Tina Rassmussen :
First sit to First Jhana
https://dharmaseed.org/teacher/262/talk/3815/
First sit to First Jhana
https://dharmaseed.org/teacher/262/talk/3815/
Re: How to reach absorption?
"absorption" may not be the best translation for "jhana", but it's workable for the majority of the contexts.
The real problem is that in EBT (early buddhist texts), 1st jhana, ... fourth jhana, have a clear and specific definition, and specific definitions for vitakka and vicara (thought and evaluation). If you trace the devolution of how the four jhanas are understood in Theravada, in Early Abhidhamma, first jhana is still correctly understood with V&V (vitakka and vicara), and Vimutti-magga also retain the correct meaning. But a few hundred years later, Viuddhimagga corrupts the meaning of V&V, and redefines the four jhanas, and first jhana in particular into a completely different meditation practice than in the EBT.
A detailed study of this corruption of the four jhanas, with pali+english is here.
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/e ... ndex.html
But since this is a "samatha bhavana" under Theravada thread, it's fair enough if people want to talk about doing VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana). But unfortunately most people do not know the difference between VRJ and first jhana of EBT. Completely different meditation practice.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
www.audtip.org/audtip: Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
Re: How to reach absorption?
Good research frank!frank k wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 5:12 pm"absorption" may not be the best translation for "jhana", but it's workable for the majority of the contexts.
The real problem is that in EBT (early buddhist texts), 1st jhana, ... fourth jhana, have a clear and specific definition, and specific definitions for vitakka and vicara (thought and evaluation). If you trace the devolution of how the four jhanas are understood in Theravada, in Early Abhidhamma, first jhana is still correctly understood with V&V (vitakka and vicara), and Vimutti-magga also retain the correct meaning. But a few hundred years later, Viuddhimagga corrupts the meaning of V&V, and redefines the four jhanas, and first jhana in particular into a completely different meditation practice than in the EBT.
A detailed study of this corruption of the four jhanas, with pali+english is here.
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/e ... ndex.html
But since this is a "samatha bhavana" under Theravada thread, it's fair enough if people want to talk about doing VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana). But unfortunately most people do not know the difference between VRJ and first jhana of EBT. Completely different meditation practice.
Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?
Greetings robertk,
I found this sutta one minute ago :
Milindapanha 1/6/6
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/mil6.1.6
‘The mind of the Arahat, O king, is trained, well practised, tamed, brought into subjection, and obedient, and it hearkens to his word. When affected with feelings of pain, he grasps firmly the idea of the impermanence of all things, so ties his mind as it were to the post of contemplation, and his mind, bound to the post of contemplation, remains unmoved, unshaken, becomes stedfast, wanders not—though his body the while may bend this way and that and roll in agony by the disturbing influence of the pain. This is why it is only one kind of pain that the Arahat suffers—bodily pain, that is, and not mental.’
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...