Should nuns and monks be political?

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Should nuns and monks be political?

Monks and nuns should remain silent on political matters - Dhamma only
12
55%
Monks and nuns should comment on political matters of the day
2
9%
Monks and nuns should only comment in extreme political circumstances such as war, brutal dictatorship etc
8
36%
 
Total votes: 22

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Ceisiwr
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Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun May 05, 2019 9:11 pm

Please vote and discuss :smile: :reading:

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Sun May 05, 2019 11:47 pm

Monks & nuns are already political & biased towards the political views of their supporters (rather than have political views based on the Dhamma). For example, the Trump vs Hillary campaign showed a gang of Western monks & nuns heavily biased towards "liberal & war interventionist doctrine", including support of abortion. For example, Bhikkhu Bodhi's case for a "Just War" only against Nazi Germany because Bhikkhu Bodhi & many of his supporters are Jewish shows how biased Western monks can appear to be. Therefore, monks & nuns should only preach the Dhamma that may be related to politics rather than comment directly on political parties & candidates.

In short, the criteria below is non-sense because to be properly practiced relies on accurate facts, In short, I think it clearly demonstrates how so-called "Buddhist Liberals" promote war intervention & can be easily manipulated or duped by war propaganda. It is ILLOGICAL because it proposes brutal dictatorship can be ended (obviously by using war); yet it also opposes war. :roll:
Monks and nuns should only comment in extreme political circumstances such as war, brutal dictatorship etc
The left-wing-neo-con-virtue-signallers support the removal of so-called "brutal dictators" which results in those nations being many times worse off than before. This is because the left-wing-neo-cons are indoctrinated by the corporate war industry mainstream media. For example, they are happy for millions of Iranians to be killed in war as long as it allows for more sexual promiscuity & homosexuality in Iran. None of this is related to Buddhism, really. It is mostly ignorance. :|
Monks, become my heirs of Dhamma, not heirs of material things.

MN 3
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon May 06, 2019 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Idappaccayata
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Idappaccayata » Mon May 06, 2019 12:23 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 11:47 pm
Monks & nuns are already political & biased towards the political views of their supporters (rather than have political views based on the Dhamma). For example, the Trump vs Hillary campaign showed a gang of Western monks & nuns heavily biased towards "liberal & war interventionist doctrine", including support of abortion. For example, Bhikkhu Bodhi's case for a "Just War" only against Nazi Germany because Bhikkhu Bodhi & many of his supporters are Jewish shows how biased Western monks can appear to be. Therefore, monks & nuns should only preach the Dhamma that may be related to politics rather than comment directly on political parties & candidates.

In short, the criteria below is non-sense because to be properly practiced relies on accurate facts, In short, I think it clearly demonstrates how so-called "Buddhist Liberals" promote war intervention & can be easily manipulated or duped by war propaganda. It is ILLOGICAL because it proposes brutal dictatorship can be ended (obviously by using war); yet it also opposes war. :roll:
Monks and nuns should only comment in extreme political circumstances such as war, brutal dictatorship etc
The left-wing sheep support the removal of so-called "brutal dictators" which results in those nations being many times worse off than before. This is because the left-wing sheep are indoctrinated by the corporate war industry mainstream media. For example, they are happy for millions of Iranians to be killed in war as long as it allows for more sexual promiscuity in Iran. None of it is related to Buddhism, really. :|
While this is quite a strangely angry rant, I agree with most of it.

You seem quite politically biased though. Do you really believe it's only the "left wing sheep" that support war and removing "dictators"?

The entire establishment runs on war and pro corporate policy. To single out one side of the political spectrum is hilarious. It's just as delusional as political monks. If you pick a side to vilify in politics, you're wrong.
A dying man can only rely upon his wisdom, if he developed it. Wisdom is not dependent upon any phenomenon originated upon six senses. It is developed on the basis of the discernment of the same. That’s why when one’s senses start to wither and die, the knowledge of their nature remains unaffected. When there is no wisdom, there will be despair, in the face of death.

- Ajahn Nyanamoli Thero

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 06, 2019 12:24 am

Idappaccayata wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:23 am
strangely angry rant
I undertake the training to refrain from false speech. :ugeek:
Idappaccayata wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:23 am
You seem quite politically biased though. Do you really believe it's only the "left wing sheep" that support war and removing "dictators"? The entire establishment runs on war and pro corporate policy. To single out one side of the political spectrum is hilarious. It's just as delusional as political monks.
I don't recall ever posting or inferring the above. I recall posting the left are the "dupes" ("pawns") of the right.
Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote:Trump’s presidential campaign challenged each of the ethical ideals I cherish.... He threatened to deny women their reproductive rights...

https://buddhistglobalrelief.me/2016/11 ... end-times/
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Ceisiwr » Mon May 06, 2019 12:40 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 11:47 pm
Monks & nuns are already political & biased towards the political views of their supporters (rather than have political views based on the Dhamma). For example, the Trump vs Hillary campaign showed a gang of Western monks & nuns heavily biased towards "liberal & war interventionist doctrine", including support of abortion. For example, Bhikkhu Bodhi's case for a "Just War" only against Nazi Germany because Bhikkhu Bodhi & many of his supporters are Jewish shows how biased Western monks can appear to be. Therefore, monks & nuns should only preach the Dhamma that may be related to politics rather than comment directly on political parties & candidates.

In short, the criteria below is non-sense because to be properly practiced relies on accurate facts, In short, I think it clearly demonstrates how so-called "Buddhist Liberals" promote war intervention & can be easily manipulated or duped by war propaganda. It is ILLOGICAL because it proposes brutal dictatorship can be ended (obviously by using war); yet it also opposes war. :roll:
Monks and nuns should only comment in extreme political circumstances such as war, brutal dictatorship etc
The left-wing-neo-con-virtue-signallers support the removal of so-called "brutal dictators" which results in those nations being many times worse off than before. This is because the left-wing-neo-cons are indoctrinated by the corporate war industry mainstream media. For example, they are happy for millions of Iranians to be killed in war as long as it allows for more sexual promiscuity & homosexuality in Iran. None of this is related to Buddhism, really. It is mostly ignorance. :|
Monks, become my heirs of Dhamma, not heirs of material things.

MN 3

I think you are confusing liberals/leftists with Neo-cons

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 06, 2019 12:41 am

clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:40 am
I think you are confusing liberals/leftists with Neo-cons
No. Not at all.

:focus:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 06, 2019 12:43 am

Greetings,
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:40 am
I think you are confusing liberals/leftists with Neo-cons
I think this is starting to veer off topic, beyond the parameters for which this topic is permitted to be discussed at Dhamma Wheel.

:focus:

If anyone wants to answer whether nuns and monks should be political, that's entirely OK.

If anyone wants to delve into the politics itself, then that would be a conversation better suited to Dharma Wheel Engaged.

Subsequent posts that are not mindful of this distinction may be edited or removed by staff without notice.

If people keep dragging the topic off-topic, we may consider moving this topic to the "Hot Topics" section, so that each post must be approved before it becomes visible (similar to how the Theravada For Beginners section works)

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 06, 2019 1:33 am

This video was posted on another thread. The monk makes are very relevant point at 41:43 to 42:30.

There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Idappaccayata
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Idappaccayata » Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:33 am
This video was posted on another thread. The monk makes are very relevant point at 41:43 to 42:30.

You just shared a video by a literal, self proclaimed Nazi, speaking to a "monk" or whoever that guy in the orange was, while complaining that monks are too political. This is both hilarious and very sad. How are you not seeing the forest through the trees?

I would honestly like to hear your attempt to explain how this "monk" isn't engaging in politics, and how you justify him doin speaking to a white nationalist?
A dying man can only rely upon his wisdom, if he developed it. Wisdom is not dependent upon any phenomenon originated upon six senses. It is developed on the basis of the discernment of the same. That’s why when one’s senses start to wither and die, the knowledge of their nature remains unaffected. When there is no wisdom, there will be despair, in the face of death.

- Ajahn Nyanamoli Thero

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 06, 2019 2:51 am

Idappaccayata wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 am
You just shared a video by a literal, self proclaimed Nazi...
I did originally post the view in the video would be written-off as "Nazi" but deleted my comment. Note: I don't have psychic powers. ;)
Idappaccayata wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 am
I would honestly like to hear your attempt to explain how this "monk" isn't engaging in politics, and how you justify him doin speaking to a white nationalist?
The above is irrelevant. You are attacking the speaker rather than focusing upon what the speaker said. This said, I critiqued the monk in another thread.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

SarathW
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by SarathW » Mon May 06, 2019 3:06 am

I voted that monks should be free from politics.
However, they can discuss Dhamma influencing politics in general sense.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 06, 2019 3:12 am

clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:08 am
How can you say that Buddhism doesn’t support his views unless you know what his views are?
The view Buddhism does not support is writing-off what a person has to say when one has not even heard what they have to say. Just because the monk is chatting to a Nazi sympathizer and speaks some White Supremacist things does not make everything he says as invalid. Buddhist does not support this. 90+% of what the monk said is valid Buddhist discourse.
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon May 06, 2019 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Ceisiwr » Mon May 06, 2019 3:13 am

In relation to the clip I agree that PC attitudes have become corrosive and stifling. Free speech should be the ideal, which in turn means all the other freedoms too.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by Ceisiwr » Mon May 06, 2019 3:15 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:12 am
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:08 am
How can you say that Buddhism doesn’t support his views unless you know what his views are?
The view Buddhism does not support is writing-off what a person has to say when one has not even heard what they have to say. Just because the monk is chatting to a Nazi sympathizer and speaks some White Supremacist things does not make everything he says as invalid. Buddhist does not support this.

Straw man (as per usual for you). You accused him of holding certain views without knowing his views.

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DooDoot
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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Post by DooDoot » Mon May 06, 2019 3:15 am

clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:13 am
In relation to the clip I agree that PC attitudes have become corrosive and stifling. Free speech should be the ideal, which in turn means all the other freedoms too.
I don't recall ever suggesting any wrong paths to you. :heart:
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:15 am
Straw man (as per usual for you). You accused him of holding certain views without knowing his views.
No. I accused him/her of the CM method of character assassination. This is not Buddhist.
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon May 06, 2019 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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