No self theory do I get it right?

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polo
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No self theory do I get it right?

Post by polo » Sun May 05, 2019 7:13 am

I am sure some kind soul out there can explain to me the "no self" theory. I may be wrong or totally wrong, from what I understand say if I called myself John or Jack and which part of me is John or Jack, the brain, the cells? Or if you say the whole person but the whole person is not the same it is changing all the time because the cells died and changed. This constantly changing biological entity has no self same with the universe which is constantly changing though in minute ways not perceptible to the length of time we are watching it.
There is no self so to speak.

Srilankaputra
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Srilankaputra » Sun May 05, 2019 12:31 pm

As I have seen on another forum this questions can be a real can of worms.

My take on it after listening to teachers I have faith in;

There is a self is a clinging to views.
There is no self is a clinging to views.
Ariyas without clinging to any views simply see "Ye dhamma hetuppabhavā".
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

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Jerafreyr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Jerafreyr » Sun May 05, 2019 1:00 pm

polo wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:13 am
I am sure some kind soul out there can explain to me the "no self" theory. I may be wrong or totally wrong, from what I understand say if I called myself John or Jack and which part of me is John or Jack, the brain, the cells? Or if you say the whole person but the whole person is not the same it is changing all the time because the cells died and changed. This constantly changing biological entity has no self same with the universe which is constantly changing though in minute ways not perceptible to the length of time we are watching it.
There is no self so to speak.
The brain is composed of parts, and in none of those parts is the essence of self to be found. It is the same with cells, even atoms. There is no such existence as a partless thing. All is dependent on other things. It is just like the appearance of a mirage.

chownah
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by chownah » Sun May 05, 2019 1:19 pm

Hi polo,
Asking in pubic like this if you have got it right will (I think) result in those who see it the same way as you saying that you do have it right and those who see it differently from you will say you don't have it right.

I like what you say and don't think it is wrong while on the other hand I think it goes way beyond just what you have said. Some people will of course think I am wrong but that's ok (ok with me at least).....perhaps they are right and I am wrong. Whatever people say, I just keep practicing and keep studying and keep calming my mind and doing my best to see more clearly what all the no self thing is all about because it really seems to me that when one comes to a perfect undertanding of the no self thing one has pretty nearly reached the goal. Also, I think that for most people their view of the no self thing evolves over time hopefully helping them to progress on the path.
chownah

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun May 05, 2019 4:46 pm

Image





There is No such thing as:
-'I'
-Ego
-Self
-Soul
-Spirit
-Attā/Atman
-eternal citta
-eternal consciousness





some ref: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34060
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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DNS
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by DNS » Sun May 05, 2019 4:49 pm

polo wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:13 am
I am sure some kind soul out there can explain to me the "no self" theory.
:D Good one, not sure if you were trying to be humorous, but it comes off a little funny. :thumbsup:

auto
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Sun May 05, 2019 7:07 pm

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:46 pm
Image





There is No such thing as:
-'I'
-Ego
-Self
-Soul
-Spirit
-Attā/Atman
-eternal citta
-eternal consciousness





some ref: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34060
Sutta says that khandhas are not self, not your self, not yours,
knowing that above why you still spread wrong information that there is no self or no soul?

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun May 05, 2019 7:28 pm

auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:07 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:46 pm
Image





There is No such thing as:
-'I'
-Ego
-Self
-Soul
-Spirit
-Attā/Atman
-eternal citta
-eternal consciousness





some ref: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34060
Sutta says that khandhas are not self, not your self, not yours,
knowing that above why you still spread wrong information that there is no self or no soul?

Everything within the world is not-self. To say there is a self outside of the world is unknowable. To say there is 100% no-self outside of the world is useless conjecture and can be a view that is clung to. All we can know is that the world (the 6 senses and their objects) are all empty of self or what belongs to self.

auto
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:28 pm
auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:07 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:46 pm
Image





There is No such thing as:
-'I'
-Ego
-Self
-Soul
-Spirit
-Attā/Atman
-eternal citta
-eternal consciousness





some ref: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34060
Sutta says that khandhas are not self, not your self, not yours,
knowing that above why you still spread wrong information that there is no self or no soul?

Everything within the world is not-self. To say there is a self outside of the world is unknowable. To say there is 100% no-self outside of the world is useless conjecture and can be a view that is clung to. All we can know is that the world (the 6 senses and their objects) are all empty of self or what belongs to self.
the one who feel feelings is you whilst the feeling is not self.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun May 05, 2019 7:56 pm

auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:28 pm
auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:07 pm


Sutta says that khandhas are not self, not your self, not yours,
knowing that above why you still spread wrong information that there is no self or no soul?

Everything within the world is not-self. To say there is a self outside of the world is unknowable. To say there is 100% no-self outside of the world is useless conjecture and can be a view that is clung to. All we can know is that the world (the 6 senses and their objects) are all empty of self or what belongs to self.
the one who feel feelings is you whilst the feeling is not self.

What is this “one who feels things”? Is it form, perception, thoughts or consciousness (you have already ruled out feelings)?

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Sun May 05, 2019 8:08 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:56 pm
auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:28 pm



Everything within the world is not-self. To say there is a self outside of the world is unknowable. To say there is 100% no-self outside of the world is useless conjecture and can be a view that is clung to. All we can know is that the world (the 6 senses and their objects) are all empty of self or what belongs to self.
the one who feel feelings is you whilst the feeling is not self.

What is this “one who feels things”? Is it form, perception, thoughts or consciousness (you have already ruled out feelings)?
if you ask who is this one who is feeling in real time then you come aware of yourself who is feeling feelings you can refer to that its me who is feeling feelings, but you can't yet grasp it or hold onto it but eventually need let it into your body.


Also when you come aware that you are aware, and then next time you come aware you notice that you were unaware, you see it appearing. As of you don't notice when you went unaware <--that same thing is documented, it is Theravada, at least vipassana files, saw it posted in this site..what i mean its not unique, many others who can notice it too.

+ there is more and more, you see the blackness where the knowledge is coming. And you can get to that blackness by a state when to practice absorption, and its not simply concentration on something, its following that sense of self.
Last edited by auto on Sun May 05, 2019 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun May 05, 2019 8:19 pm

auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:08 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:56 pm
auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 pm


the one who feel feelings is you whilst the feeling is not self.

What is this “one who feels things”? Is it form, perception, thoughts or consciousness (you have already ruled out feelings)?
if you ask who is this one who is feeling in real time then you come aware of yourself who is feeling feelings you can refer to that its me who is feeling feelings, but you can't yet grasp it or hold onto it but eventually need let it into your body.


Also when you come aware that you are aware, and then next time you come aware you notice that you were unaware, you see it appearing. As of you don't notice when you went unaware <--that same thing is documented, it is Theravada, at least vipassana files, saw it posted in this site.

I'm certainly aware of the idea of self. That doesn't mean there is a self, as in a permanent "me". I ask you again, where is this self? What is it? Is it form, perception, thoughts/ideas or consciousness (as you have already ruled out feeling)?

As far as I can tell "I am" is a thought and a feeling which arises in the mind.

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by auto » Sun May 05, 2019 8:27 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:19 pm
auto wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:08 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:56 pm



What is this “one who feels things”? Is it form, perception, thoughts or consciousness (you have already ruled out feelings)?
if you ask who is this one who is feeling in real time then you come aware of yourself who is feeling feelings you can refer to that its me who is feeling feelings, but you can't yet grasp it or hold onto it but eventually need let it into your body.


Also when you come aware that you are aware, and then next time you come aware you notice that you were unaware, you see it appearing. As of you don't notice when you went unaware <--that same thing is documented, it is Theravada, at least vipassana files, saw it posted in this site.

I'm certainly aware of the idea of self. That doesn't mean there is a self, as in a permanent "me". I ask you again, where is this self? What is it? Is it form, perception, thoughts/ideas or consciousness (as you have already ruled out feeling)?

As far as I can tell "I am" is a thought and a feeling which arises in the mind.
when you say things then these affect the body, certain sayings will cause things in body to rise and with these things knowledges arise, knowledge contains information and sometimes also containing what to do.

Asking where is this self, should prompt you to come aware, also you may come aware that you sit in your room. When then you look at your hand, then it is your hand at that moment. Then you can do proper type of mediation or sadhanas because you have reach to that point where you could and is useful.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun May 05, 2019 8:33 pm

auto
when you say things then these affect the body, certain sayings will cause things in body to rise and with these things knowledges arise, knowledge contains information and sometimes also containing what to do.

Asking where is this self, should prompt you to come aware, also you may come aware that you sit in your room. When then you look at your hand, then it is your hand at that moment. Then you can do proper type of mediation or sadhanas because you have reach to that point where you could and is useful.

I'm sorry but you aren't answering my questions. Also, none of that means that there is a self which you do so claim. Its mere assertion and quite vague at that.

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budo
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Re: No self theory do I get it right?

Post by budo » Sun May 05, 2019 8:37 pm

When the average person is referring to a self, they're referring to continuity (I existed in the past, I exist now, I will exist tomorrow). Even the average person after a certain age knows we are just a bunch of body parts, with electricity (heat, nerves) and memories. What they don't fully understand is continuity. To fully understand continuity you need to attain cessation and jhanas.

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