Different methods of Vipassana?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:15 am

🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

ChooChoo
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:50 am

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by ChooChoo » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:02 am

Thanks again. Burma seems to be a very innovative country when it comes to meditation.

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:17 am

🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun May 19, 2019 2:23 am

Sunlun sayadaw

I am glad to learn those having positive experiences with this method viewtopic.php?f=41&t=30365&start=15#p440275 and related methods like "the-in-gu", "the-in-gu 32"
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun May 19, 2019 4:13 am

kanni (Moung Htaung Myay Zinn) method

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 am
kanni (Moung Htaung Myay Zinn) method

Image

Image




http://burmadhamma.blogspot.com/2017/02 ... f.html?m=1




In April 2009, Sayadaw*** left Sri Lanka for Australia to promote and spread the Buddha’s teachings. He is currently the Abbot of Kabaraye Buddhist Monastery in Endeavour Hills (ex Noble Park), VIC. Sayadaw conducts classes in the Kanni meditation method both in Burmese and English.
http://www.abkm.info/News_and_Events.html
***a student of the kanni method




Now, in recent years, first we saw Pa Auk Sayadaw and now Mong Htaung Myay Zin Tawya Sayadaw, who went even further to train Yogi for a period of 60 days to attain the ability to tour the Deva and Brahma world and for some to eradicate any illnesses in the body of a Yogi. There is a revival of the old Samatha based Vipassana method known to most meditation Yogi’s as Kanni method.
http://www.acejaw.net/Buddha/Article/MongHtaungYogi.pdf
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

tamdrin
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by tamdrin » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:25 pm

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:13 am
kanni (Moung Htaung Myay Zinn) method

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 am
kanni (Moung Htaung Myay Zinn) method

Image

Image




http://burmadhamma.blogspot.com/2017/02 ... f.html?m=1




In April 2009, Sayadaw*** left Sri Lanka for Australia to promote and spread the Buddha’s teachings. He is currently the Abbot of Kabaraye Buddhist Monastery in Endeavour Hills (ex Noble Park), VIC. Sayadaw conducts classes in the Kanni meditation method both in Burmese and English.
http://www.abkm.info/News_and_Events.html
***a student of the kanni method




Now, in recent years, first we saw Pa Auk Sayadaw and now Mong Htaung Myay Zin Tawya Sayadaw, who went even further to train Yogi for a period of 60 days to attain the ability to tour the Deva and Brahma world and for some to eradicate any illnesses in the body of a Yogi. There is a revival of the old Samatha based Vipassana method known to most meditation Yogi’s as Kanni method.
http://www.acejaw.net/Buddha/Article/MongHtaungYogi.pdf






This is interesting. In his recorded experience the yogi claims he remembered 11 past lives clearly and took a tour of the deva realm. Thanks for sharing.

tamdrin
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by tamdrin » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:59 pm

Would the samatha based vipassana method of Myanmar be similar to that taught in the Thai forest tradition?

User avatar
bazzaman
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:49 am

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by bazzaman » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:17 am

It might interest some here to view these interviews with Erik Braun regarding his book on the Ledi Sayadaw and the rise of the vipassana movement in Burma amongst the laity. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... BT6EhxUw2u
Atāṇo loko anabhissaro...

User avatar
phillyy
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:52 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by phillyy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:59 pm

ChooChoo wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:02 am
Thanks again. Burma seems to be a very innovative country when it comes to meditation.
The Magok method seems to lend itself to paryatti first, particularly the paticcasamupada doctrine, before proceding to vipassana.

theinngu32
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:39 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by theinngu32 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:20 pm

Thank you for posting the Theinngu32 method. I can clarify information for you - being the westerner in the photo that is posted here …...Theinngu32 no longer accepts foreigners - or non Burmese speaking students, because of possible misunderstandings in the teachings. Most of what you reported is correct - Students may take 2 ten day course only and then partake in the vassa retreat. The first 3 days are anapana meditation, which here is rapid breathing - following a recording and instructions are given throughout - the important points are to remain relaxed and not to move at all until the session is over. Aditthana parami is extremely important here. To this end, a team of nuns and monks and other volunteers who have previously completed retreats, watch the students - to correct their posture, to check they are practising properly and not moving. At some centres there are CCTV cameras - all for the aim of helping the students to develop as much as possible in a short time. On the first day of the first timers retreat, all sittings are 1 hour long and there are also Dhamma talks given by either the chief monk, the arahat, Sayadaw U Sandima or the 2nd monk (who speaks excellent English), Sayadaw U Dhamma Paragu. On the 2nd day sittings are 1 and a half hours in the morning and then 2 hours in the afternoon and thereafter (except for the 2nd full lotus sit later on in the retreat - which is 5 hours). All sittings are strictly no moving.
On the 3rd or 4th day, the anapana changes to bauchain - or the balanced breath. Here, once pain comes up in the body, the attention is shared between the pain and the touch of the breath - the idea being to develop equanimity - neither attaching to the touch of the breath (pleasant sensation) or to the pain (unpleasant sensation). Subsequent days, the meditation is cittanupassana - watching the mind - the thoughts that arise and not the body, and also lying down meditation is given once - a 3 hour session, lying on the back - with no moving and instructions are given on cittanupassana, asubha, the skeleton, and the 4 elements. Then the meditator can choose their object. On about the 7th day, the students are split into groups for full lotus sits (mahapalin). The first one is 2 hours. The idea is to bring up the pain - which can be excrutiating in this position. Instructions are given throughout - to watch the mind and not to follow the craving to move - craving is the cause of suffering and there cannot be a stronger craving than the craving to move when the body experiences severe pain. By not following the craving to move, very large stocks of craving are removed from one's system. Some meditators experience a cooling of the heart/mind - despite being aware of intense pain, their mind remains very very peaceful, with the result that they will never again be disturbed by severe pain - however severe, death will be no issue/problem for them and they have been able to separate the body and the mind. In other practises, this takes years of endless practise and so the retreats gain in popularity......Most Burmese manage the 2 hours full lotus and a couple of days later will do 5 hours full lotus.

On the vassa retreat, it isn't compulsory to do the full lotus, although students can do 9 hours if they wish - if they want to get rid of a kammic debt. The vassa retreat starts with 3, 5 and 4 hour sits for the first few days and then it's 3 and 9 hour sits......after some more days, there is usually a 3 day period where a 6 hour overnight sit is added on, before again having 3 and 9 hour sits. The culmination is a 3 and then 16 hour sit. All strictly no moving. The idea is to experience emptiness - without going down the concentration route - so vipassana is used, which gives a more stable mind.
Retreats were taught in the Theinngu32 format by one of Sayadaw U Sandima's teachers, the nun Sayalay Kesaracari - mostly to the Burmese in the UK but a few westerners attended. She will return this year due to popular demand and anyone wishing to join a retreat that she will give to English speakers after the Burmese retreat, around the 3rd of January for 3 days, can contact me on Sheila.kirwan@yahoo.co.uk. It is a rare opportunity to experience Theinngu32 teachings as now it is not possible for foreigners to do so in Burma.

Sayadaw's excellent book - A journey to Eternal Peace - should be out in English next year - anyone wanting a review of the book can contact me on the above email

theinngu32
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:39 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by theinngu32 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:02 am

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:13 pm
The inn gu / Theingu
My writtings of the following method may be wrong. I just know majority of these today.[quote

As a student at Theinngu32 (the westerner in the picture - and in the pictures you posted from Sayalay Kesaracaris retreat in UK last year, I can tell you that most of your writing is correct. Sayadaw hasn't allowed non Burmese speakers to do a retreat for some years now - though he made an exception of me - perhaps because I am good friends with the nun and she promised the Sayadaw to help me and also a few years back, I stayed 6 months at their Yangon centre to help edit instructions which had been translated into English and voice record. Any English speakers who are interested in this method, should try and attend a short retreat in UK with Sayalay Kesaracari - an excellent teacher, appointed by the Sayadaw. Please contact me by email if interested - she will be in the UK from December for about 6 months - teaching mainly the Burmese community but is always open to teaching others and she can easily see what others need. For westerners - she (although Sayadaw doesn't !) does allow people to sit on chairs and for shorter periods of time, if they cannot manage the full sits - here the important thing is the Aditthana sittings - if you decide to sit for 1 hour, then you do that etc....
Sheila.kirwan@yahoo.co.uk
=========

Thae Inn Gu (Sayadaw Ashin [Ajan] Okkatta)
Book-student of Sunlun (practicing by following the method found in Sunlun Sayadaw Biography book)
http://burmadhamma.blogspot.com/2015/08 ... n.html?m=1



(Ashin Sandimar)
Thae inn gu (32nd branch)-s
IMO, this needs some mentioning in that:
1. Not very much found in Eng. sources
2. The method is not much identical with that of Thae inn gu, but The sayadaw Achin Sandimar who has developed (Thae inn gu - 32 branch) method felt so grateful for some teachings of former Thae inn gu sayadaw that he decided to continue using the name with the suffix (32nd-branch), even though ashin sandimar's followers have suggested to use a new name.
3. Gained very rapidly expanding popularity in recent years
4. Very strict rules
5. Dutanga friendly retreats for monks available
6. It's not uncommon to manage through five hours straight sittings in full lotus position on the very first retreats of 9 days.
7. Even children can manage 5 hours in lotus (i recently heard and saw the photo about 10 years old girl who managed full lotus 5 hours sitting twice in a retreat), and a six year old novice - see below, and some other children doing so.
8. Adults doing more than 10 hours straight in full lotus are also not uncommon)
9. It is famous for strict rules, and yet rapidly expanding, in parts of Burma. Some in USA, & melbourne.
10. Long-hour retreats includes 15 hours straight sittings (as far as i learnt, it doesn't need so many retreats to reach that level, if one is able. May be one or some 9-day retreats, then "polishing course" may be around 10 days, then long-hour retreats (20 days / 45 days ?). New students managed to do so in 20 days course for new students.
11. Anapana meditation similar to (or same as?) Sunlun / Theingu method, and generally going for jhana level samadhi within days, during 9 days vipassana retreat.

Melbourne
https://m.facebook.com/TheInnGu32DhammaViharaMelbourne/

USA
https://m.facebook.com/Theinngu32USA/

centres in myanmar
https://m.facebook.com/Theinngu32/

All from FB publicly available

rare post in English (in england)




bhikkhu




child friendly




nuns







Abhidhama teachings 1


Abhidhama teachings 2


Abhidhama teachings 3








Some "ladies" from long hour vasa retreat in 2018
Standing far right seems a "westerner"
Standing far left, i'm quite sure, was a famous movie actress. If i remember right, in 2017?, she had successfully managed five hrs sitting in full lotus) So, it is highly likely that she managed at least 15 hours sittings in this 2018 long-hour ?45 days retreat.






20 days course for new students
15 hours (1 pm to 4 am ) continuous sitting short video 2-3 minutes
(all are new students - amazing!)









5 hrs in full lotus








(six year old) novice managed through 5 hr sit




melbourne kids








centre at sayadaw's home town





yangon city center






a center near Mandalay city






one of new centres


Edited: some years / grammar

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Different methods of Vipassana?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:15 pm

theinngu32 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:20 pm
Thank you for posting the Theinngu32 method. I can clarify information for you - being the westerner in the photo that is posted here …...Theinngu32 no longer accepts foreigners - or non Burmese speaking students, because of possible misunderstandings in the teachings. Most of what you reported is correct - Students may take 2 ten day course only and then partake in the vassa retreat. The first 3 days are anapana meditation, which here is rapid breathing - following a recording and instructions are given throughout - the important points are to remain relaxed and not to move at all until the session is over. Aditthana parami is extremely important here. To this end, a team of nuns and monks and other volunteers who have previously completed retreats, watch the students - to correct their posture, to check they are practising properly and not moving. At some centres there are CCTV cameras - all for the aim of helping the students to develop as much as possible in a short time. On the first day of the first timers retreat, all sittings are 1 hour long and there are also Dhamma talks given by either the chief monk, the arahat, Sayadaw U Sandima or the 2nd monk (who speaks excellent English), Sayadaw U Dhamma Paragu. On the 2nd day sittings are 1 and a half hours in the morning and then 2 hours in the afternoon and thereafter (except for the 2nd full lotus sit later on in the retreat - which is 5 hours). All sittings are strictly no moving.
On the 3rd or 4th day, the anapana changes to bauchain - or the balanced breath. Here, once pain comes up in the body, the attention is shared between the pain and the touch of the breath - the idea being to develop equanimity - neither attaching to the touch of the breath (pleasant sensation) or to the pain (unpleasant sensation). Subsequent days, the meditation is cittanupassana - watching the mind - the thoughts that arise and not the body, and also lying down meditation is given once - a 3 hour session, lying on the back - with no moving and instructions are given on cittanupassana, asubha, the skeleton, and the 4 elements. Then the meditator can choose their object. On about the 7th day, the students are split into groups for full lotus sits (mahapalin). The first one is 2 hours. The idea is to bring up the pain - which can be excrutiating in this position. Instructions are given throughout - to watch the mind and not to follow the craving to move - craving is the cause of suffering and there cannot be a stronger craving than the craving to move when the body experiences severe pain. By not following the craving to move, very large stocks of craving are removed from one's system. Some meditators experience a cooling of the heart/mind - despite being aware of intense pain, their mind remains very very peaceful, with the result that they will never again be disturbed by severe pain - however severe, death will be no issue/problem for them and they have been able to separate the body and the mind. In other practises, this takes years of endless practise and so the retreats gain in popularity......Most Burmese manage the 2 hours full lotus and a couple of days later will do 5 hours full lotus.

On the vassa retreat, it isn't compulsory to do the full lotus, although students can do 9 hours if they wish - if they want to get rid of a kammic debt. The vassa retreat starts with 3, 5 and 4 hour sits for the first few days and then it's 3 and 9 hour sits......after some more days, there is usually a 3 day period where a 6 hour overnight sit is added on, before again having 3 and 9 hour sits. The culmination is a 3 and then 16 hour sit. All strictly no moving. The idea is to experience emptiness - without going down the concentration route - so vipassana is used, which gives a more stable mind.
Retreats were taught in the Theinngu32 format by one of Sayadaw U Sandima's teachers, the nun Sayalay Kesaracari - mostly to the Burmese in the UK but a few westerners attended. She will return this year due to popular demand and anyone wishing to join a retreat that she will give to English speakers after the Burmese retreat, around the 3rd of January for 3 days, can contact me on Sheila.kirwan@yahoo.co.uk. It is a rare opportunity to experience Theinngu32 teachings as now it is not possible for foreigners to do so in Burma.

Sayadaw's excellent book - A journey to Eternal Peace - should be out in English next year - anyone wanting a review of the book can contact me on the above email

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive explanation.

Over many centuries, if not millennium, Pali words became every day Myanmar/Burmese words with meanings very different (some even to the point of being opposite) from those found in Dhamma of Pali Scriptures. Many lay persons tend to confuse Dhamma meaning and layman meaning of pali-ish words.

That said, Many eminent Sayadaws tend to explain Dhamma using those words in both contexts. IMO, to understand the intended meaning, one need to study the teachings in the context of a particular Sayadaw, to be able to appreciate the teachings.

I think that is one of the reason why translations of Mogok Sayadaw method is rare even though it is one of the most popular method in Myanmar/Burma. The situation is similar also in Theingu 32 method, IMO.

It would be very hard for the translations to properly reflect the Dhamma meanings of original teachings in Myanmar, for some great methods.

❤️
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests