What is best next to Theravada?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
thang
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 pm

What is best next to Theravada?

Post by thang » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:59 am

What is best religion next to Theravada? Why?
What is best religion next to Buddhism? Why?
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

SarathW
Posts: 12452
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by SarathW » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:57 am

Even within Theravada, there are many different schools of thoughts.
Some Theravada schools believe Nibbana as an existing reality or another type of consciousness.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Srilankaputra
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 am
Location: Sri Lanka

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by Srilankaputra » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 am

This is a good question. How would you define, theravada and a theravadin?
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

User avatar
Volo
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:32 am

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by Volo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:58 pm

Bhikkhus, of the speculative views held by outsiders, this is the foremost, namely: ‘I might not be and it might not be mine; I shall not be, [and] it will not be mine.’
AN 10.29

he holds such a view as this: ‘I might not be, and it might not be for me; I will not be, [and] it will not be for me.’ That annihilationist view is a formation...
SN 22.81

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2989
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by cappuccino » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:07 pm

SarathW wrote: Some Theravada schools believe Nibbana as an existing reality or another type of consciousness.
this would then not be annihilation ism

SarathW
Posts: 12452
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by SarathW » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:12 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:07 pm
SarathW wrote: Some Theravada schools believe Nibbana as an existing reality or another type of consciousness.
this would then not be annihilation ism
Don't know.
What I am saying is Buddha rejected the five aggregate of clinging.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

thang
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by thang » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:02 pm

SarathW wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:57 am
Even within Theravada, there are many different schools of thoughts.
Some Theravada schools believe Nibbana as an existing reality or another type of consciousness.
I meant Theravada without such views.
Srilankaputra wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 am
This is a good question. How would you define, theravada and a theravadin?
Who gives the first priority to Mahavihara interpretations. (yet can be having little deviations)
Volo wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:58 pm
Bhikkhus, of the speculative views held by outsiders, this is the foremost, namely: ‘I might not be and it might not be mine; I shall not be, [and] it will not be mine.’
AN 10.29
It is the worst. I meant the best.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 12608
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by DNS » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 pm

thang wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:59 am
What is best religion next to Theravada? Why?
You mentioned Theravada, so for this one I assume you mean which other tradition/school of Buddhism.
Chan Buddhism; similar doctrines, similar practice, focuses on meditation, monasticism.
What is best religion next to Buddhism? Why?
Jainism (Svetembara); similar and also focuses on meditation, monasticism. Historically, it is one of the 2 original non-Vedic srmana paths (Jainism & Buddhism).

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5132
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:57 pm

DNS wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 pm
thang wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:59 am
What is best religion next to Theravada? Why?
You mentioned Theravada, so for this one I assume you mean which other tradition/school of Buddhism.
Chan Buddhism; similar doctrines, similar practice, focuses on meditation, monasticism.
What is best religion next to Buddhism? Why?
Jainism (Svetembara); similar and also focuses on meditation, monasticism. Historically, it is one of the 2 original non-Vedic srmana paths (Jainism & Buddhism).
:goodpost:

- but I would add Taoism to the list.
Chan inherited a lot from Taoism, as you will see if you read (e.g) the Tao Te Ching.

:reading:
Kim

User avatar
Polar Bear
Posts: 1287
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: Bear Republic

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by Polar Bear » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:18 pm

DNS wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 pm
thang wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:59 am
What is best religion next to Theravada? Why?
You mentioned Theravada, so for this one I assume you mean which other tradition/school of Buddhism.
Chan Buddhism; similar doctrines, similar practice, focuses on meditation, monasticism.
What is best religion next to Buddhism? Why?
Jainism (Svetembara); similar and also focuses on meditation, monasticism. Historically, it is one of the 2 original non-Vedic srmana paths (Jainism & Buddhism).
I can dig it. Although the Digambara Jains have a cooler name, Sky-clad.

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4725
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Jaroen Dhamma Cave, Mae Wang Huai Rin, Lamphun

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:30 pm

Polar Bear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:18 pm
I can dig it. Although the Digambara Jains have a cooler name, Sky-clad.
But a not so cool way of making themselves bald: plucking their hair out rather than shaving it. Ouch!


.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

alfa
Posts: 373
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 pm
Location: India

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by alfa » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:04 am

Jainism is the extreme that the Buddha warned us about - torturing one's body in the hopes of liberation. I honestly do not know why any sane person would find it appealing.

User avatar
Volo
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:32 am

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by Volo » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:35 am

thang wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:02 pm
Volo wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:58 pm
Bhikkhus, of the speculative views held by outsiders, this is the foremost, namely: ‘I might not be and it might not be mine; I shall not be, [and] it will not be mine.’
AN 10.29
It is the worst. I meant the best.
I think you needed to familiarize yourself with the meaning of the word "foremost".

thang
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by thang » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:45 am

DNS wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 pm
What is best religion next to Theravada?
Chan Buddhism;
What is best religion next to Buddhism?
Jainism;
Same answer I got from several Theravada monks.

Another monk mentioned rishis/hermits who attain jhanas. Is it a religion or just an individual practice?
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

thang
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: What is best next to Theravada?

Post by thang » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:10 am

Volo wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:35 am
Bhikkhus, of the speculative views held by outsiders, this is the foremost, namely: ‘I might not be and it might not be mine; I shall not be, [and] it will not be mine.’ AN 10.29
I think you needed to familiarize yourself with the meaning of the word "foremost".
I apologize for getting it wrong. I got it wrong at once as annihilationism and thought it meant foremost in reverse.

Regarding Kosala Sutta (AN 10.29):
I found different interpretations of this passage. Does anyone know what is the correct interpretation of the mentioned view?
Etadaggam bhikkhave bahirakanam ditthigatanam yad idam no c'assam,|| no ca me siya,|| na bhavissami,|| na me bhavissanti ti.|| ||
http://obo.genaud.net/a/dhamma-vinaya/p ... ali.bd.htm

Monks, of outsiders who hold views, this view: Were I not then, it would not now be mine; I'll not become, 'twill not become in me - is the topmost.
http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts ... od.pts.htm

This is the best of the convictions of outsiders, that is: ‘I might not be, and it might not be mine. I will not be, and it will not be mine.’
https://suttacentral.net/an10.29/en/sujato

"The supreme view-point external [to the Dhamma] is this: 'I should not be; it should not occur to me; I will not be; it will not occur to me.'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

“Bhikkhus, of the speculative views held by outsiders, this is the foremost, namely: ‘I might not be and it might not be mine; I shall not be, and it will not be mine.’
https://suttacentral.net/an10.29/en/bodhi
See If Not "Mine" for some discussion as to the difficulties translators have had with the little ditty found in this and other suttas.

No 'were that my',
and no 'would that my',
no 'mine' becoming,
no becoming 'my'.

http://obo.genaud.net/backmatter/indexe ... nipata.htm
The problem in these translations stems from trying to make sense of the words hearing the emphasis on the idea of 'being', thinking: "existing" as in ultimate reality or as an ultimate self.

Because of hearing the emphasis on the idea of 'being', the debate is thrown off onto the issue of existence versus non-existence, whereas another way of hearing the same words is that the idea is the identification with being: "If it had not been identified with; there would not have been a "mine" 'for me' now. Hear the five-year-old claiming his toy: "My toy!" This is not easy to put into writing, but is a simple matter of inflection (the "in quotation marks" inflection) when speaking.

Think facing the consequences of some bad deed. If I had not lied, stolen, injured then, because of strong desire and identification with something or another, then I would not be suffering this outcome now.

If there had been no identification with form, sensation, perception, own-making or consciousness in the past,
there would not now be any identified with experiencing of this dukkha painful ugly ukky k-kha now.

Not doing any own-making such as to cause becoming now, there will not become any identified-with experiencing of dukkha in the future.

Said like it is said, it can be adopted to any situation that arises.

http://obo.genaud.net/dhammatalk/dhamma ... t_mine.htm
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 70 guests