How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

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MrLearner
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How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by MrLearner » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:32 pm

Hello everyone,

After a long time, don't know what I say will make any sense First of all I'm no saint and not reached any higher state but I try to be a nice person as much as possible and try to follow the Buddhist way as much as i can. But when people around me act in an ignorant way, I feel demotivated and I feel should I also live like them, without trying to achieve some spiritual enlightenment. I have met so many extraordinary, talented people in my life, but for the life of me I have not met any spiritually advanced person to inspire me in my path. I have met some very kind and good people, but most of them are like that by nature. So even though I'm not spiritually advanced, I try my best to follow the path and achieve peace, but everyday at work all I see is ignorance in other people. This demotivates me a lot, I feel like if everyone else is just enjoying life in an ignorant way, why should I try to achieve enlightenment. Basicallly i'm asking how to not be dissapointed by ignorance around you and not be demotivated in the path?

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Nicolas
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by Nicolas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:03 pm

Those very good and kind people you've met, perhaps it is by nature, but perhaps they did develop themselves and weren't always good and kind. I know people who've become good, and good people who've become better.

You might want to try to achieve enlightenment because it is the end of all suffering.
But also, letting go produces more ease in one's life.
Those people enjoying life in an ignorant way are enjoying some aspects of it, but they are also suffering because of it.

I know that my life is much more peaceful now since I stumbled upon the Buddha's teachings.

binocular
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by binocular » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:42 pm

MrLearner wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:32 pm
So even though I'm not spiritually advanced, I try my best to follow the path and achieve peace, but everyday at work all I see is ignorance in other people. This demotivates me a lot, I feel like if everyone else is just enjoying life in an ignorant way, why should I try to achieve enlightenment. Basicallly i'm asking how to not be dissapointed by ignorance around you and not be demotivated in the path?
A question to consider (not necessarily to reply to here):
What worthwhile thing do you lose or would lose if you were to commit to the path to enlightenment?
It seems that your disappointment is connected to you still seeing something worthwhile in living ignorantly, the way other people do.

For example, if you were to commit to the path to enlightenment, then you probably wouldn't fit in with other people anymore, or not so easily. This is not an easy prospect to face.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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cappuccino
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:02 pm

said by the Master: 'As even a little excrement is of evil smell, I do not praise even the shortest spell of existence, be it no longer than a snap of the fingers.'

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Bundokji
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by Bundokji » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:05 pm

I think focusing on one's own flaws and shortcomings makes him more forgiving in relation to the flaws of others.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by JohnK » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:53 pm

MrLearner wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:32 pm
...Basicallly i'm asking how to not be dissapointed by ignorance around you...
Disappointment is about something not meeting an expectation.
So, it might be worth reflecting on what expectation (belief/view) you have that is not being met.
(Where does that expectation come from? Why do you hold it? Is it reasonable? Does it lead to stress? How?)
:anjali:
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by JohnK » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:58 pm

I still think it is important to reflect on the expectation that is the cause of your disappointment.
However, I was just now reading the Metta chapter in Ajahn Sucitto's Parami that may be helpful/relevant to some degree (I have added some boldface):
Consciousness is just this
awareness of ‘being with’ in the various fields of seeing, hearing,
tasting, smelling, touching and thinking. And in that process of
being with, consciousness automatically establishes the sense of a
subject and an object: a seer who sees a visible object, a hearer
who hears an audible object, etc. Out of that duality, the sense of
self and other arises...
...for each mind, the emphasis is on the self; the ‘me, mine’ bit is the crucial
aspect in a world of changing others. Even in your own mind, there
appears the self (the subject) as a watcher and the other (the
object) as thoughts and emotions. Or the self is how you conceive
yourself as being, and other is what you should be, might be,
or were.
This is self-view, and it’s the norm for unawakened beings. Self-view
rests on the assumption that these dependently-arisen
polarities are actually separate and autonomous. It infers a self,
despite the inability of that self to own or control the body or mind
that it adopts as its own; despite its genetic and psychological
inheritance from others; and despite its inability to rest
unsupported by sights, sounds, affection and purposeful activity
— all of which are outside its dominion. Self-view is blind to
interdependency. Consequently, its flooding ignorance sweeps us
into a sense of separation and alienation
, whilst all the time
asserting that this is our empire.
The sense of dissatisfaction that occurs in the territory of
alienation is not attributed to the disconnection between self and
other. Instead, ignorance tells us that there’s something wrong
with either the other, or the self
that eventually becomes an other
— that is, my mind that I have to deal with. So we pick away at
either or both of these apparent culprits. It’s often the case then
that the boundary mark between self and other becomes one of
ill-will,
although we may not even recognize it. We might say: ‘I
should be like this,’ ‘I’m the one who has to do this,’ ‘I need to help
others to be more the way they should be.’ In all of these, the
relationship is one marked with a sense of the inadequacy of either
self or other.
The flood of becoming makes such assumptions
reasonable: of course I have to become better! And, of course you
and the world could improve! But does frustration and blind
reaction make that happen?
Following that instinct, do you ever
notice that the good times still don’t arrive? Now it’s not that
everything is exactly right, but when the assumption of needing
to become something else precedes, and is the basic configuration
of, our attitudes — where’s the appreciation, where’s the joy? In a
world of flawed humans, where’s the foundation for goodwill?

Where’s the resource and the pāramī that can make the world a
better place?
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

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Cittasanto
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:16 pm

Hi MrLearner

Ignorance is the way of the world. How do you know they, and not you are the ignorant ones?
To expect others to be at the same place, understanding, way of life... as yourself is not really helpful for people in general, and a daily mantra of low expectations is helpful to not become discouraged or disapointed by those people or situation you find yourself in.
what can you expect from the world where greed, hatered, and delusion is predominant? no more than greed hatred and delusion!

In Truth
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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retrofuturist
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:15 pm

Greetings,
Nicolas wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:03 pm
Those very good and kind people you've met, perhaps it is by nature, but perhaps they did develop themselves and weren't always good and kind. I know people who've become good, and good people who've become better.
Exactly.

There is nothing exclusively Buddhist about a view that resembles MN 117's "Right View with Effluents"....
"And what is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are contemplatives & brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions.
Whether "natural" or not, View will inform Intention, which will inform Action... and so on.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

SarathW
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:30 pm

"'There are three frames of reference that a noble one cultivates, cultivating which he is a teacher fit to instruct a group': thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said?

"There is the case where the Teacher — out of sympathy, seeking their well-being — teaches the Dhamma to his disciples: 'This is for your well-being, this is for your happiness.' His disciples do not listen or lend ear or apply their minds to gnosis. Turning aside, they stray from the Teacher's message. In this case the Tathagata is not satisfied nor is he sensitive to satisfaction, yet he remains untroubled, mindful, & alert. This is the first frame of reference that a noble one cultivates, cultivating which he is a teacher fit to instruct a group.

"Furthermore, there is the case where the Teacher — out of sympathy, seeking their well-being — teaches the Dhamma to his disciples: 'This is for your well-being, this is for your happiness.' Some of his disciples do not listen or lend ear or apply their minds to gnosis. Turning aside, they stray from the Teacher's message. But some of his disciples listen, lend ear, & apply their minds to gnosis. They do not turn aside or stray from the Teacher's message. In this case the Tathagata is not satisfied nor is he sensitive to satisfaction; at the same time he is not dissatisfied nor is he sensitive to dissatisfaction. Free from both satisfaction & dissatisfaction, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert. This is the second frame of reference...

"Furthermore, there is the case where the Teacher — out of sympathy, seeking their well-being — teaches the Dhamma to his disciples: 'This is for your well-being, this is for your happiness.' His disciples listen, lend ear, & apply their minds to gnosis. They do not turn aside or stray from the Teacher's message. In this case the Tathagata is satisfied and is sensitive to satisfaction, yet he remains untroubled, mindful, & alert. This is the third frame of reference that a noble one cultivates, cultivating which he is a teacher fit to instruct a group.

https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn ... html#fnt-1
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

thang
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by thang » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:38 pm

MrLearner wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:32 pm
.. But when people around me act in an ignorant way, I feel demotivated and I feel should I also live like them, without trying to achieve some spiritual enlightenment. .., but everyday at work all I see is ignorance in other people. This demotivates me a lot, I feel like if everyone else is just enjoying life in an ignorant way, why should I try to achieve enlightenment. Basicallly i'm asking how to not be dissapointed by ignorance around you and not be demotivated in the path?
If a school boy lives in the company of boys who don't go school, what will happen to him?
If a rehabilitated-smoker lives in the company of smokers, what will happen to him?
If a man lives in the company of apes what will happen to him?
If a civilized-man lives in the company of uncivilized-men, what will happen to him?
If a monk lives in the company of lay-people, what will happen to him?
If an elder bhikkhu lives in the company of novice-monks what will happen to him?
If a brave soldier lives in the company of cowards, what will happen to him?
If a man lives in the company of women(as friends,colleagues), what will happen to him?
If an matured man lives in the company of young boys, what will happen to him?


Then think about the living examples of them while seeing what has happened to them.
[The Buddha:]
"Not to associate with the foolish, but to associate with the wise; -Mangala Sutta
"This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie."

"Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life." -Upaddha Sutta
Avoid the evil companion
disregarding the goal,
intent on the out-of-tune way.
Don't take as a friend
someone heedless & hankering.
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Consort with one who is learned,
who maintains the Dhamma,
a great & quick-witted friend.
Knowing the meanings,
subdue your perplexity,
[then] wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

-Khaggavisana suuta
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

Srilankaputra
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by Srilankaputra » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:45 am

If neccasity is the mother of invention it surely is the father of effort. A farmer who doesn't sow his seeds will go hungry. Not making an effort on the path is condemning one self to suffering.
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

Laurens
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by Laurens » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:01 am

Being disappointed by people comes from having an unrealistic expectation.

Generally most quibbles with others boil down to one thing; you want people to behave exactly in a way that benefits and pleases you.

That's about as much use as sitting in front of a rock, expecting it to start talking to you.

The world doesn't conform to your expectations. Some people are ignorant, some people are annoying, some people make you despair for the human race.

You aren't God, you can't make people act a certain way. The easiest way to deal with the issue is thus to examine your expectations, and focus on how you react.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

MrLearner
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by MrLearner » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:45 pm

Hey thank you all for the wonderful replies. I read them all. I think as many have pointed maybe the problem is I want people to behave in a way that pleases me.
Laurens wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:01 am
Being disappointed by people comes from having an unrealistic expectation.

Generally most quibbles with others boil down to one thing; you want people to behave exactly in a way that benefits and pleases you.
Maybe if I rephrase the question, why is it that internally we want everyone to like us and behave in a way that pleases us, why does this lead to suffering, and how to over come it?

MrLearner
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Re: How to not be dissapointed by other people in your path to englightenment?

Post by MrLearner » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:46 pm

Thank you all for the replies. I read them all.

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