What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?
When does real mindfulness start?
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
There is a passage in Analayo's Satipatthana commentary that states that arahants never lose mindfulness. I cant remember what page its on or what sutta is referred to. So i believe until then no one will be able to maintain perfect mindfulness until arahantship is attained.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
-
Goofaholix
- Posts: 4029
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
In my experience it's a gradual shift that takes place over a number of years, but as bodom says it probably doesn't become 100% until you're enlightened. Think of a skateboard or scooter, at first you push and push until you gain enough momentum and then it's free and easy to travel along, but then from time to time you need to push some more to maintain your momentum.heraclito27 wrote:What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
Nice analogy. I like that.Goofaholix wrote:In my experience it's a gradual shift that takes place over a number of years, but as bodom says it probably doesn't become 100% until you're enlightened. Think of a skateboard or scooter, at first you push and push until you gain enough momentum and then it's free and easy to travel along, but then from time to time you need to push some more to maintain your momentum.heraclito27 wrote:What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
-
heraclito27
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:13 pm
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
Ok, thank you.
-
jcsuperstar
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
- Location: alaska
- Contact:
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
define "real" mindfulness.heraclito27 wrote:What is the cause that "trying to be mindful" stop and "real mindfulness" start?
What is the difference between these two mental activities?
once one learns how to be mindful it should start. a lot of the problem is learning not directly from a teacher but from books or the Internet. some times 50 different teachers will say the same thing 50 different ways and maybe one of them will say it in a way where you "get it" this is why interaction with a teacher is so important.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.jcsuperstar wrote: define "real" mindfulness.
-M
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
I agree. There is only one type of mindfulness to be developed but there are different types of objects to be mindful of.meindzai wrote:Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.jcsuperstar wrote: define "real" mindfulness.
-M
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
-
Goofaholix
- Posts: 4029
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
The objects, in the way mindfulness is taught, are just a tool. Mindfulness is a quality of mind, a quality of remembering to be aware, whatever objects may arise and pass away it doesn't matter the aim is for that quality of mind to be consistent.bodom wrote:meindzai wrote:jcsuperstar wrote: I agree. There is only one type of mindfulness to be developed but there are different types of objects to be mindful of.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
-
jcsuperstar
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
- Location: alaska
- Contact:
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
um i guess when one is an arahant then?meindzai wrote:Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.jcsuperstar wrote: define "real" mindfulness.
-M
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
Probably. Is it possible to have constant and unbroken mindfulness of the four foundations and still not have any wisdom?jcsuperstar wrote:um i guess when one is an arahant then?meindzai wrote:Unbroken (constant) mindfulness of the four foundations/frames of reference, IMO.jcsuperstar wrote: define "real" mindfulness.
-M
-M
-
jcsuperstar
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
- Location: alaska
- Contact:
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
well according to abhidhamma one cant have akusala citta while maintaining mindfulness right? so to have constant mindfulness would mean to have nothing but kusala cittas which would mean the ending of greed, hatred and delusion , therefore that would imply wisdom right?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
Re: When does real mindfulness start?
I can't find any reason to disagree with that.jcsuperstar wrote:well according to abhidhamma one cant have akusala citta while maintaining mindfulness right? so to have constant mindfulness would mean to have nothing but kusala cittas which would mean the ending of greed, hatred and delusion , therefore that would imply wisdom right?
-M