Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:33 am
The below sounds like Hinduism & Brahman.
First, there must be consciousness. Only then can a concept of consciousness arise. The mind is an instrument of consciousness through which thoughts are perceived. That which perceives this concept of consciousness is consciousness: that is you, and not the concept that you have of consciousness. In other words; from your consciousness you can not conceptualize consciousness, for you are consciousness. Consciousness cannot be conceptualized in any way because it precedes and surpasses all concepts.

We thus perceive reality, via stimuli, within ourselves. However, we, ourselves are consciousness. As a result, we are not ‘selves’, but only reality. You can not explain yourself. This, of course, does not mean that what is perceived can have no meaning. As described before; conceptualizing is meaningful by definition.

Summarizing the above; you are consciousness, so you perceive reality (through stimuli) within yourself. Since, however, you are consciousness and only perceive, you thus perceive reality as yourself. If you perceive reality as yourself, you are not yourself, but only reality [Brahman]. So there is no self, but only reality [Brahman].

Understanding the above creates a radical change in the way reality is perceived. You are aware that you are the awareness of reality and are not separate from it. You are everything that happens in your environment and body, because you perceive this. This gives you a deeper connection with people, animals, plants and things from your environment, which is expressed in a (deep) sense of sympathy, compassion or loving kindness. This feeling arises because you no longer perceive from your person, but from reality, and realize that everything from reality is connected with your body and each other. This experiential knowledge, together with the extinguishing (enlightening) of your egocentric desires and emotions, is called Nirvana in Buddhism and is the final stage of the experiential doctrine of Buddhism. To fully understand the above, you need insight into the rest of reality.

https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/6-consciousness/
The above doesn't sound like Nirvana in Buddhism and the final stage of the experiential doctrine of Buddhism. Its sounds like Hinduism.
After gaining insight into mutual dependent arising and the emptiness of essence, we are left with consciousness; we perceive something. We now know that if something is formed, for instance a flower, we can’t define it by merely observing its physical presence. The flower also needs everything around the physical presence of the flower to be the flower. This means that without the air, the soil, the sun, et cetera, the flower would not be there. Therefore, the flower can’t be truly defined as it needs everything to exist and consequently its essence is empty. So nothing is truly formed, because we can’t really define something. If we identify or define something, this is only a mental fabrication. But we still experience ‘things,’ so these ‘things’ are without form.....

....We are merely a mental fabrication from the attempt to identify and define ourselves out of ignorance. The ignorance that there truly is nothing to permanently identify with. The moment you have let go of the identification with form, you are left with the identification with the formless. Although you do not define a form anymore, you do recognize you experience something. We attain Nirvana when we also have let go of the identification with the formless. We are conscious that nothing is formed, as the essence of form is empty. This means that something is without form. However, also the essence of the formless is empty and is therefore nothing. So nothing is formed and nothing is without form. Nothing does not come and nothing does not go. Nothing is permanent, everything is impermanent. We dissolved into nothingness, as we were nothing to begin with.

https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/14-nirvana/
First & foremost, Nirvana is the ending of dukkha. The above ideas about Nirvana never appear to mention this. In other words, when the mind (not "we" or "you") lets go of identification, this is peaceful; this is free.
PeterC86 wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:07 pm
Thanks in advance for your responses. Sharing is caring.
Welcome Peter. I browsed some of what you wrote. Many of your paragraphs about 'ego', 'preference', 'expectation' & 'dukkha' were very well explained. Some paragraphs are very well written, such as the last paragraph of 'Ego and emotions'. However, I think a lot of what you wrote sounds like plagiarism.
Thanks for your response.

I just said that we are only consciousness, which is empty as it is only perception. I am not saying there is nothing outside our consciousness.

When you realize you are nothing, dukkha is also ended as suffering starts with identifying the formless and after that through defining form.

Everywhere I used texts from other people I used references. To just blame me for possible plagiarism without any evidence says more about you than about the text.

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DooDoot
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:08 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:49 am
Just because the word unsatisfactoriness is in the chapter 'Ego & emotions' doesn't mean it is an emotion.
Okay thanks for your reply, but that is how i read it.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:49 am
JIf you read the whole manual you will see it doesn't matter anyway, it is nitpicking what word means what exactly. In the end you will see it are just pointers as their essence is empty.
Yes, essence of the manual was discerned as empty. Old news. If the original wheel is not broken, why reinvent it.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Bundokji
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Bundokji » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:09 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:34 am
Thanks for your message! Where are you on the path?
I have not entered the path yet.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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DooDoot
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:18 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
I just said that we are only consciousness
"We" are not consciousness.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
When you realize you are nothing, dukkha is also ended as suffering starts with identifying the formless and after that through defining form.
What "you"? Dukkha is identifying. There is no need to distinguish between form & formless.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
Everywhere I used texts from other people I used references.
A few references per page but I don't recall any of Buddhist texts.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
but To just blame me for possible plagiarism without any evidence says more about you than about the text.
Its quite clear the ideas are from uncited Buddhist text or teachings.
This origination of a person is explained in Buddhist texts by the twelve links of mutually dependent origination;

Becoming – birth

From becoming, your ‘self’ is formed. This self is born mentally because you identify yourself with your desires. These desires become mentally separate from your objective sensatory awareness, because you define them, and thus create a self.

https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/10-the-self/
Which texts say the above?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:27 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:08 pm
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:49 am
Just because the word unsatisfactoriness is in the chapter 'Ego & emotions' doesn't mean it is an emotion.
Okay thanks for your reply, but that is how i read it.
That's why I clarified it.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:49 am
JIf you read the whole manual you will see it doesn't matter anyway, it is nitpicking what word means what exactly. In the end you will see it are just pointers as their essence is empty.
Yes, essence of the manual was discerned as empty. Old news. If the original wheel is not broken, why reinvent it.
It's not really reinventing, I just made a text to explain the path in a way which might be understood easier for people in the west.
Last edited by PeterC86 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:47 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:18 pm
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
I just said that we are only consciousness
"We" are not consciousness.
No in the end we are nothing, but the manual guides one through the process from the self to no-self, in this process we pass consciousness.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
When you realize you are nothing, dukkha is also ended as suffering starts with identifying the formless and after that through defining form.
What "you"? Dukkha is identifying. There is no need to distinguish between form & formless.
No in the end not, but on the path I found it useful to make a distinction.

I don't know if you have read the whole manual? From your replies I tend to assume not, as it seems you pick some things out of the text to then review them from the 'end' perspective. Some concepts, like consciousness, are introduced for people to connect to on the path, to then later be able to let them go.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
Everywhere I used texts from other people I used references.
A few references per page but I don't recall any of Buddhist texts.
There is no Buddhist text I quoted or used smaller parts of texts from. This is not to say that the ideas are from myself, but it is not a scientific paper. I definitely have read Buddhist texts, like I mention in my first post, and when I finally understood them, I wrote my understanding in my own words. However, I didn't refer to Wikipedia when I used concepts I read there and where no further source was mentioned, as most of them are common knowledge, just as the common ideas about Buddhism.
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm
but To just blame me for possible plagiarism without any evidence says more about you than about the text.
Its quite clear the ideas are from uncited Buddhist text or teachings.
This origination of a person is explained in Buddhist texts by the twelve links of mutually dependent origination;

Becoming – birth

From becoming, your ‘self’ is formed. This self is born mentally because you identify yourself with your desires. These desires become mentally separate from your objective sensatory awareness, because you define them, and thus create a self.

https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/10-the-self/
Which texts say the above?
Good example, the chain is not my idea of course, although my explanation is.

I don't really get your replies, as you don't seem to really want to help me. Have you attained Nirvana?

Or are you just trying to spread your interpretations and norms and values?
Last edited by PeterC86 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:01 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:15 pm
Perfectly awakened Buddhas do not need spellcheck.
No? Have you met one who could speak all languages fluently?

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:03 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:38 pm
DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:32 pm
By seeing the cause of your unsatisfactoriness

https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/1-ego-and-emotions/
The above sounds like a superstitious clinging to language. In English, the word "unsatisfactoriness" does not appear to be an "emotion". An English dictionary says:
quality - an essential and distinguishing attribute of something or someone

inadequateness, inadequacy - unsatisfactoriness by virtue of being inadequate

perishability, perishableness - unsatisfactoriness by virtue of being subject to decay or spoilage or destruction

unacceptability, unacceptableness - unsatisfactoriness by virtue of not conforming to approved standards

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/unsatisfactoriness
I don't really go for defending internet steam-entrants (sic). But IMO unsatisfactory, I think he meant vedanā: sukhāvedaniyam, duḥkhavedaniyam, aduḥkhamāsukhāvedaniyam, in this triad particularly duḥkhavedaniyam. He is mistaking emotion for feeling, which IMO is a fair misunderstanding for a beginner. I think viewed this way the root mistake behind the passage can be found, but maybe I am talking nonsense. I didn't actually bother to read his website, I will admit.
I never wrote anywhere that it is an emotion. Before giving feedback or critic, may I invite you to read the whole thing first? Else you are, just like DooDoot, ripping words and pieces of text out of their context.

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:11 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:09 pm
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:34 am
Thanks for your message! Where are you on the path?
I have not entered the path yet.
Ah oké, you are planning to?

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Manopubbangama
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Manopubbangama » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:12 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:07 pm
Greetings to you all,

I recently attained Nirvana.
Only once?

I attained Nirvana three times:

1) Bleach
2) Nevermind
3) In Utero

The second time was the best.

How is it, btw?

Nirvana?

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Bundokji
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Bundokji » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:55 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:11 pm
Ah oké, you are planning to?
Not sure. Do you think it makes a big difference?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:07 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:55 pm
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:11 pm
Ah oké, you are planning to?
Not sure. Do you think it makes a big difference?
A difference to?

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Bundokji
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Bundokji » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:14 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:07 pm
A difference to?
Maybe you should answer this question? You asked about my plans. Do you think i should have plans to enter the path?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:20 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:14 pm
PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:07 pm
A difference to?
Maybe you should answer this question? You asked about my plans. Do you think i should have plans to enter the path?
Where do you think the path leads to?

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Bundokji
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Bundokji » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:26 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:20 pm
Where do you think the path leads to?
You tell me!
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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