"#MeToo!" in Buddhism

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Manopubbangama
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"#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Manopubbangama » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:52 pm

So a friend of mine has recently illustrated that there are far more sexual scandals in Buddhism than I had originally realized, and I finally saw the pattern:

The males are the conmen who use the spirituality-angle as the casting couch and the females use the casting couch as a way to attempt to access some kind of prestige through backseat-hypergamy.

This is why I generally tend to prefer converts that come from Christianity or Judaism, instead of the Boomer Marx, Mao and Marcuse Caterpillar to Reagan Butterfies; they at least have a foundation in the rudiments of self-respect instead of seeing the world through the lens of power-as-goal.

Listen to how some of these goddess-worshipping feminists make a career from first, attempting to enter the harem of an elderly patriarchal authoritarian and then after that doesn't work out for them they make a career as a professional victim (which in America is often highly lucrative).


I was a Tantric sex slave
So why did she stay for almost three years? "Personal prestige. The women believe that they too are special and holy..."
Reading between the lines: she copulated with a man old enough to be her grandfather in order to get her face on the cover of an Eastern Spirituality fluff book in Barnes and Noble.
Only one other person knew of the relationship - a second monk - with whom she took part in what she described as a polyandrous Tibetan-style relationship. "It was some years before I realised that the extent to which I had been taken advantage of constituted a kind of abuse."
Reading between the lines: these dudes basically gangbanged her and treated her like toilet paper but she kept coming back in the hope it would better her career. When she realized she got played she suddenly was the innocent wide-eyed victim.
source

Same behaviour-patterns here:
The sexual affairs were apparently not abusive or hurtful to the women. By all accounts, they were probably strengthening and certainly gave the women access to power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwan_Um_S ... troversies

The male conmen ride the spirit-circuit to wealth and fame by handing out oriental pajamas, the female groupies plug their noses while these old men grunt over them to become either a) the spirit-guide on the spirit-circuit or b) a professional-feminist-victim in academia, either a or b is Oprah-material for plugging the new Chicken-Soup-for-the-Five-Aggregates.

The western males, who probably are still into the retire-as-spiritual-enlightened-master and go on the baby-boomer spirit-circuit trade silience for the oriental wizard outfits, as well.
Buddhist Project Sunshine, a community initiative to bring awareness to sexualized violence in Shambhala, published the allegation against Chödrön in its “Phase 3 Report” in August. According to the report, a woman reported to Chödrön that she had been raped by a Shambhala Center director and subsequently miscarried. She says that Chödrön told her that “I don’t believe you” and “If it’s true I suspect that you were into it.
https://www.lionsroar.com/pema-chodron- ... ung-woman/
Speak for yourself, Pema!


This list could go on and on but the pattern is the same. Always.

If people don't start watching out for spiritual cross-dressers they are gonna get got (to use a street term). :spy:

First of all 1) know what the basics or Buddhist morality are, for God's sake, and then 2) don't give one red cent to bums who can't follow these principles but claim to be Disciples of the Buddha.


Its really that simple.

Buddhism is in just as much of the need for an audit as the Roman Catholic Church and their man behind the wall with the pointy hat.

3) Any book you see in the book store in English in the Eastern Philosophy section is probably the product of these Oriental conmen, their thots and the male converts who trade silence for prestige-granting wizard outfits. They made their enlightment bones on their backs and knees instead of sitting cross legged.

Throw it all out with the trash; the Tipitika can be purchased in hard copy for a tiny sum of money, far cheaper than in any other time in history, its also free in various levels of quality on the internet.

Be a manic fundamentalist and not a victim; know what the Buddha truly said and audit the guys (and gals) in the oriental wizard outfits.

Vote with your wallet and support real Buddhist monks who teach the Dhamma, and give nothing to the conmen on the multi-billion dollar oriental-wisdom circuit.

Thats it.

If you don't, you create more Oshos', Deepak Chopras, Chögyam Trungpas and their thots.
Last edited by Manopubbangama on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Manopubbangama
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Re: "Me, Too!" in Buddhism

Post by Manopubbangama » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:30 pm

“‘It’s through living together that a person’s virtue may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.

“‘It’s through trading with a person that his purity may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.

“‘It’s through adversity that a person’s endurance may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.

“‘It’s through discussion that a person’s discernment may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period ; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.’



https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN3_11.html

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Manopubbangama
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Re: "Me, Too!" in Buddhism

Post by Manopubbangama » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:31 pm

329. If for company you cannot find a wise and prudent friend who leads a good life, then, like a king who leaves behind a conquered kingdom, or like a lone elephant in the elephant forest, you should go your way alone.

330. Better it is to live alone; there is no fellowship with a fool. Live alone and do no evil; be carefree like an elephant in the elephant forest.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi...d.html#dhp-329

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Re: "Me, Too!" in Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 pm

Similar to the "Me, Too!" casting-couch, it happens to ladies without moral values. Why would a lady attend a Buddhist institution and choose to have sex with a teacher? It takes two to tango.

There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Modus.Ponens » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:15 pm

Who has been sentenced to prison so far?
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm

Since when is consenting sex between adults a criminal offence?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Aloka
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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Aloka » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:15 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:15 pm
Who has been sentenced to prison so far?
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm
Since when is consenting sex between adults a criminal offence?
U.S. authorities looking into misconduct allegations at Shambhala retreat

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.4955867

:reading:


.

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Idappaccayata
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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Idappaccayata » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:12 am

Not sure what this has to do with theravada. Or even Buddhism, as far as most of us here are concerned. Maybe dharma wheel engaged is a better place for such gossip?
A dying man can only rely upon his wisdom, if he developed it. Wisdom is not dependent upon any phenomenon originated upon six senses. It is developed on the basis of the discernment of the same. That’s why when one’s senses start to wither and die, the knowledge of their nature remains unaffected. When there is no wisdom, there will be despair, in the face of death.

- Ajahn Nyanamoli Thero

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Manopubbangama
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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Manopubbangama » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:16 am

Idappaccayata wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:12 am
Not sure what this has to do with theravada. Or even Buddhism, as far as most of us here are concerned. Maybe dharma wheel engaged is a better place for such gossip?
Pretty disturbing that you would view such a pertinent issue as "gossip".
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 pm
Similar to the "Me, Too!" casting-couch, it happens to ladies without moral values. Why would a lady attend a Buddhist institution and choose to have sex with a teacher? It takes two to tango.

It does indeed; I'm more concerned for the students of both of the dancers.

In Theravada we got our own bad apples, too, especially in pandaka-rich Thailand.


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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:44 am

Aloka wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:15 pm
U.S. authorities looking into misconduct allegations at Shambhala retreat
Worldly authorities don't influence the law of kammic rebirth. Worldly justice (that is often lenient towards women) is not always the same as King Yama's justice; as described in MN 130. In MN 135, the Buddha made no distinction between men & women when it comes to karmic rebirth. I think a female Buddhist practitioner should openly & publicly say it is wrong for women to have sex with Buddhist teachers (rather than engage in worldly blaming of men). In SN 55.7, the Buddha said:
Reflecting in this way, they give up sexual misconduct themselves. And they encourage others to give up sexual misconduct, praising the giving up of sexual misconduct.

https://suttacentral.net/sn55.7/en/sujato
:heart:
Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:16 am
It does indeed; I'm more concerned for the students of both of the dancers.
I doubt both are the same. Many "lama" and "rinpoche" don't have a Vinaya. Often, the serial offender "lama" and "rinpoche" continue to be regarded as "lama" and "rinpoche" by their tradition.
Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:16 am
In Theravada we got our own bad apples
In Theravada, such as in Thailand, bad monks get arrested by the police when requested by the big monks. I think this is clearly shown in the video. The really bad monk fled to the USA.
Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:16 am
too, especially in pandaka-rich Thailand.
Sex with women is obviously not related to pandaka-ness. You are sounding like a Xtian, blaming homosexuality for all of the world's ills. In Thailand, the monastic institution was always a means for the economic poor to get ahead. However, as the world becomes more materialistic, the potential crimes increase.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Manopubbangama » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:23 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:44 am

Sex with women is obviously not related to pandaka-ness. You are sounding like a Xtian, blaming homosexuality for all of the world's ills. In Thailand, the monastic institution was always a means for the economic poor to get ahead. However, as the world becomes more materialistic, the potential crimes increase.
When most people think of Bangkok they think of ladies who pee standing up and guys who wear bras and panties and then post pics of it on the internet.

Burma doesn't have such widepread issues.

Wouldn't you agree that such phenomena is pandaka-ness?

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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by AgarikaJ » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:32 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:23 am
Burma doesn't have such widepread issues.
As you confess in your first post that you are only starting to discover that Buddhism (Theravada and otherwise) is wracked by scandals, it kind of hurts me that I must further pierce your bubble.

- https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/07/02 ... 362894400/

Fact is, monks are inherently and at first humans, (very) fallible ones, and the decision to 'go forth' is often based on more superficial reasons as one might hope for (especially when looking at it with a certain, romantically colored view and from far, far away).

The Noble Eightfold Path is so difficult, because it tries to rebuild and change human nature from the ground up, deconstructing our emotional responses to external stimuli to a point, where the resulting individual becomes what one reasonably could call "non-human" (or "beyond-human", if that pleases more).

There is a reason that the Buddha, surrounded by disciples which he himself hand-picked, still had to instate the Vinaya rules. Actually, reading through the accounts of sexual aggression and other very serious crimes within the early Sangha, which was then at best a small community of only a few thousand monks and nuns, I would suppose that such a religious group would be disbanded at an early stage by legal authorities if it tried to instate itself in a Western country nowadays. The Buddha himself would quite certainly see prison time as the person being ultimately responsible for his more wayward disciples.

This is not an easy truth to compute.

And the frequency with which sexual and other scandals regularly happen in Southeast Asia are one reason, that the nations' governments there found an easy 'in' to control the Sangha with national Sangha councils and domestic laws (certainly true for Maynmar, Laos and Thailand; Pol Pot of course chose a totally different course of action, albeit for very different reasons).

The Vinaya as a tool to heal the Sangha from within is and probably never has been sufficient, without the Buddha interpreting it for us in person. Human nature is what it is -- all the more we as an inididual need to strive for our own, "true" understanding of the Dhamma to free ourselves from it, as only this will break the cycle of Samsara.
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]

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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Manopubbangama » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:42 am

AgarikaJ wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:32 am
Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:23 am
Burma doesn't have such widepread issues.
As you confess in your first post that you are only starting to discover that Buddhism (Theravada and otherwise) is wracked by scandals, it kind of hurts me that I must further pierce your bubble.

- https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/07/02 ... 362894400/
At least those guys were defrocked. Which was the right thing to do.

Burma is auditing their own unlike the tibetan sex wizards.

In the west its not just the wizards its the thots, too, who think trading sex for wizard-outfits is a-okay.

http://veritas-lux.blogspot.com/2013/08 ... girls.html
Last edited by Manopubbangama on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:51 am

Greetings,

This is a legitimate topic, but if it could be addressed in a manner that is a bit more on-point, and a bit less gratuitous, that would be greatly appreciated.

Not only does such gratuitousness risk going beyond the Terms of Service, and increase the likelihood of posts being edited or removed, it also creates additional work for staff (in terms of attending to, assessing and closing reports) even when strictly speaking, a specific post is not in violation of the ToS.

Your understanding and assistance in this regard is appreciated.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: "#MeToo!" in Buddhism

Post by Manopubbangama » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:55 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:51 am
Greetings,

This is a legitimate topic, but if it could be addressed in a manner that is a bit more on-point, and a bit less gratuitous, that would be greatly appreciated.

Not only does such gratuitousness risk going beyond the Terms of Service, and increase the likelihood of posts being edited or removed, it also creates additional work for staff (in terms of attending to, assessing and closing reports) even when strictly speaking, a specific post is not in violation of the ToS.

Your understanding and assistance in this regard is appreciated.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
NP Paul, (and also my assertiveness-challenged stalker who follows me around to report my every move without any luck since I don't break ToS). :jumping:

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